Unions

[Michael Snow]

Yes, I should know better, but who am I to know better?



This got taken off as a tangent to gas prices, so let's start here.



I work for a company that's waiting for the union to figure out if it's going to strike or not. We've had several deliberate sabotage problems and the timing sure points to a bunch of disgruntled workers -- the union.



Here's how I see it. If you want to leave your job, go for it. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason why you should ever get it back. If you don't want it, someone else does. But no, temp workers have to babysit your job until you decide you're getting enough.



I don't believe ANY company should ever be held hostage by its workers, and that's all a strike is.



I'm only addressing the situation of today, not 50 years ago. People aren't fighting over unsafe work conditions, they're fighting to keep from having to pay any more of their own health care costs. They're fighting to say that no one can be laid off. By golly, when times get tough, someone has to go... the least productive should go, period.

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

AMEN



IN GENERAL I have not known unions to be a benefit for the hardest working, most dependable people in a company. The people with that level of dedication usually get the compensation they deserve because if they didn't they would go work somewhere else. MOST companies in this day and age try to treat their employees fairly so they can keep the good ones.





Must be strange having someone agree with you mike!

 

[Michael Snow]

Velcro, not really... now, if you agreed with me on BFHP, that'd be treason .

 

[TrepMan]

Assuming some of the Union members on this board join in this discussion, can one or more of them explain what they view as the value add vs. being a single employee negotiating his/her job, raise, promotion???



I have not worked for a Union. I have worked as "management" in a Union Shop, and have worked for a government agency when Unions were trying to recruit us into a Union. So, I have a different view/experience and may share those later (both positivie and negative).



But in today's world of (my opinion) TOO much governement oversight/meddling in the day-2-day work lives, how does a Union help or hurt the individual employee or business??



Trep

 

[Rob LaMoy]

I use TONS of unions. They're all over in my plumbing system. I couldn't make half of my connections without them.....oh wait, THOSE kinds of unions. LOL

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I have worked as a union member for the government for 28 years. We CAN'T strike under our contract but did get a "no lay-off" clause in trade for that. Although my union is very small and somewhat ineffectual, it has helped labor greatly in the past that had to deal with inept management.

And believe me, as a union steward all of my career and as union president for five years, I have witnessed bureaucracy and management at its worst. I have also seen unions protect inept labor also however. I don't know about the private sector so I can't comment but with the government, unions are necessary. The first order of a bureaucracy is to protect the bureaucracy and that's the goverment management thinks.

Two years ago we had over twenty-five rural mail carriers fired after they had accidents in the one 28" snow fall we had, AFTER being ordered to go out with 100% delivery expected. They all got their jobs back and would not have without union intervention. People (management) sitting behind desks or calling in from home made these decisions and they were wrong.

Bad management makes good unions!



Bill

 

[John McManus]

I'm starting to feel pretty damn guilty about expressing my political views about G.W. during Rob's post because of ultimately what it has led to. That particular topic plus topics such as this lead to hard opinions and hard feelings. I have been a fan of this website for the last few years and have appreciated the insight on many issues concerning my Nitro from many people with alot of boating experience. I think this site should hold true to topics related to our Nitro's even though I'm the first one to admit how easy it is to shy from that. I would just hate to see such a great site ruined because politics got in the way. Sorry to anyone I've offended.

 

[TrepMan]

Bassyankee - I for one do NOT take offense to your comments or those of others (unless they talk bad about my boat or fish!!!). This site is FAMOUS for having polite, heated and controlled discussions about a RANGE of topics (from Gay Marriage, to Glass vs. Tin)!



This is America and we SHOULD be able to in "off topic" discuss these things and from my perspective LEARN from each other.



Thats why I posted my questions in this topic, to learn all sides. I will not always agree with everyone but I want to listen.

 

[Michael Snow]

Having recourse when being fired is one thing... (and not sure how much I agree with it, but that's a topic for another day).



Please explain to me how two or more companies engaging in "price fixing" is illegal, but thousands of employees can require a set price for each type of work being done and it's legal. I support the ability of 2000 people to walk off the job and say "we're not coming back until ... " but I think the company should be able to say "okay, don't come back" and not be required by law to hold that job for them.

 

[Rich Stern]

Early in my busines career, I was victimized by Teamster strong arm tactics. Threats of damage to property, denial of services, and solicitation of bribes, in a situation where the very life of my company was at stake. That's all it took for me to become anti-union.



That's not to say unions don't a lot of good for a lot of people. Unfortunately, as with most things involving humans, it's highly imperfect and some do great harm in pursuit of selfish goals.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Didn't do Jimmy Hoffa a dang bit-o-good.



TOXIC

 

[Donald Fruge]

Our local fire fighters just re unionized. I was suprised to see this and wondered what was behind it. The article explained that the fire fighters felt like they were at the mercy of the city (small and unstable). They were worried that their pay and benefits may be in danger and wanted some weight behind them to deal with the city. I don't blame them and I hope they don't lose anything that is due to them.

Being from south louisiana you don't see or hear of any union type issues, I guess there just isn't enough big industry around here to support it. Hell, I guess you don't need a union to grow rice and raise crawfish...LOL



Wolf

 

[Michael Snow]

Wolfcount, please send me $100/month in dues and you can be a member of my union.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Bassyankee, Don't worry about it... You certainly didn't offend me and probably nobody else. Heck, we do this all the time



Bill

 

[Michael Snow]

He offended me... and I have no idea what he said . But by golly, I'm offended about whatever it was.

 

[TrepMan]

OK can someone IN a union explain to me what they view as the value add vs. being a single employee negotiating his/her job, raise, promotion???

 

[gone bye bye]

I am not, nor have I ever been, in a union. My father was (like a TON of others in the Metro Detroit area).



Unions are a neccesary evil. We all should be a little more concerned about them. In fact, with the global economy, many of the labor jobs are being taken to areas of the world that have no unions and NO PAY SCALES that will allow for a decent living for a decent days work.



I am not Pro-Union, there are many problems with them AND wothout them. I KNOW that the american Management would have a field day without unions. Lower wages, worse working conditions, etc.



I think they are a neccesary evil.



Mini

 

[TrepMan]

Mini - with a large number of public/private companies that do not have any unions i've not seen "Lower wages, worse working conditions, etc" The US/State governement, which was not in place 30-50 years ago, has much more laws inplace on working conditions, harrassmenet, and the like. On Lower Wages, If Private company can only afford $X/hour in order to run the business and take a profit (it's thier company and their risk) does the Union then require higher wages and put the company out of business? If someone doesn't like the salary/wages at a company they can find a job somewhere else, that's capitalism at its best. I've worked for 7 companies in the last 15 years, when I didn't get a raise I felt deserved or felt that management didn't treat me well, I looked for an found a job that paid better, better conditions and the like. I've moved 4 times in that 15 years, 3 of those for better jobs.



Just my opinion.

 

[Steve Rizza]

I am just going to bite my toungue on this one.



Steve



IUOE

local 66

 

[Steve Rizza]

Trep,

the benifit is that the union will send negotiators to the table.They are trained to do a job,kind of like a sports agent.They will send lawyers that specialize in contract negotiations.

The company has tons and tons of lawyers crawling all over every inch of the contract,why not even the score a little.



Just like when you buy a car,the dealer says thats all he can afford to knock off.The union will find out just what they can afford.It evens the playing field.



There is so much that the unions do as far as workers safety,it would take days for me to type it all out.



Ask any union construction workers,unions also save lives.

 

[Steve Rizza]

And since I am going on about workers safety.

I realize that there are government groups like MSHA and OSHA that regulate safety in the workplace.



Would somebody like to guess who it is that pressures these groups to pass laws forcing these companies to improve safety for their employees?



CLUE----it's not the owners of the companies.





One last thing..A union is not there to protect the do nothing slacker bum.If a company has just cause to fire you,the union can do nothing about it.All it does is ensure the little guy gets a fair shake.



Now I'm done.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

King Tin, "OK can someone IN a union explain to me what they view as the value add vs. being a single employee negotiating his/her job, raise, promotion???"



Nope But I will tell you when I see you:0



Bill

 

[Barb Baggott]

Just a couple words.....Air Traffic Controllers



Anyone remmeber what year they were all let go?



Barb

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Barb,

Like 1976 or something, right??



Carlos

 

[Larry Harp]

It was during the Reagan term. 1986 or maybe 88.



Harpo

 

[Barb Baggott]

It was something like that Carlos. Weren't they all union?

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Yes they were Union, and then were broke up by President Regan. They ahve a new Union, but not like it used to be.



Carlos

 

[Michael Snow]

Wait just a second... the Air Traffic Controllers left their jobs -- they should have been fired.



The idea that a union can determine how much a company CAN afford doesn't matter. That doesn't make the work worth more than if the company were broke.

 

[Steve Rizza]

Mike -

They went on strike,they didn't leave their jobs.



There is a difference.



If I just left my job because there was some piddly little thing that I didn't like,the union would say "addios amigo".



Workers do not go on strike for no reason.Maybe you should get the other guy's side of the story,like how they may have been working for two years without a contract because the company refuses to negotiate.Maybe the company is not giving what they agreed to.Maybe there are major safety concerns.

I don't know their situation,but you do not strike without damn good reason.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

What i did not care for when I was a member of the UAAAW (JR did ya know there are 3 A's now) Is that pay rates and grade where based on time on the job and not based on the quality and quantity of the job done. (slow down or we won't get to work Sunday) Why should I slow down to work 7 days in a row when it could be done in 5? It was there mentality, it was how there parents did it and there grand parents and they thought that was how they were supposed to do it. I was not raised that way. To terminate someone you had to catch them sleeping on the job out of there AREA or something more stupid. They had a major problem with cocaine and speed because everybody wanted to work 70 hours a week to collect there overtime? Just my veiw when I was there.

BF

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Here's my take...



When I worked for a railroad car refurbishing plant, I started as a laborer and within 2 years was a certified welder (mig, jig and aluminum), assembler, sand blaster and painter (all required testing for certification). I also drove a forklift and spent some nasty time in the bowels of tanker cars. I spent 1 winter lying on my back under railroad cars welding bolster plates that took at least 7 rows of weld (overhead welding is tough....and painful) per side and you could not stop during a weld. Most of these welds were x-rayed upon completion. I was a union member and I was injured in a rodeo accident and needed 3 months off work. Thanks to the union I got paid more being off (no taxes) and was guaranteed my job back when I recovered. I got so stir crazy after the first month, I went to the shop and pushed a broom or did whatever I could. I even worked in the tool shed handing out left handed cresent wrenches to the newbies.



Now here is where the rub comes in....There was a major layoff at the plant and because of my work history and my willingness to work, management spared me the axe and let go older more senior union members. The union was hot and would have sacrificed me if they had their way. Ultimately, I kept my job because the union did not want to go to court to get a union member fired.....



Moral of the story.....always play YOUR hand not the one dealt to you.



TOXIC

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Everything starts out "good"...People have a tendency to screw "everything" up! They'll find loopholes and turn everything around to benefit them. Could that be why all are jobs are going overseas? Naaahhhhh....

 

[Michael Snow]

Tox honey, having a farmer jab you with a pitchfork for trying to date one of the cows is NOT a rodeo accident .

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

HAHAHAHA, but trying to ride one with a cinch stap around his privates is!!LOL!! They don't like that much and have a nasty habit of taking it out on the closest target. Dis-located shoulder and bruised sternum is veeeeery painful. I ripped every muscle between my shoulder and neck.



TOXIC

 

[gone bye bye]

Snow,



What do you do for a living?



Mini

 

[Rich D]

I think some industries definitely need them to protect workers, others do not.



I was a member of the CWA. We were asked by management to stay on our phones during a fire alarm until someone could verify if it was a real emergency. I sat next to one of the stewards, he told us to follow evacuation procedures. Myself and others did, others did not. It turned out to be a false alarm, and the company tried to punish the ones that left, even though by making us stay, they were violating the law. I was later fired by a new manager for a very minor mistake. The grievance process took around 14 months. When I was contacted by the National rep asking what I wanted, I told him if we won, I wanted the firing changed to voluntary resignation and I wanted the difference between what I would have made during the 14 months and what I did make. (It took almost a year to find a job, working $8.00 an hour temp assignments in the meantime.) I did not want to go back to the company in any capacity. I won, I used the settlement to buy my boat and invested the balance. Incidentally, I had used the evaluation of the "call" in subsequent interviews and was complimented on my customer service skills and professionalism...



Rich D

 

[Michael Snow]

I'm a computer geek.

 

[gone bye bye]

Cool.



Mini

 

[Michael Snow]

Well, it's official.. they strike 12:01am on Friday and come back at 11:59pm Monday... a 4 day weekend for them with management covering the two heaviest call-volume days.



My brother had a heart attack this morning, and he's in KY and I'm in Dallas. I cannot go visit him because I'm covering for people who don't care enough about their job to show up.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Sorry to hear about your brother Mike. I will say a prayer and hope he gets better.



Bill

 

[Michael Snow]

Thanks guys. He had a stint put in last night and had an EKG which as of last report, the Dr. hasn't gone over yet.



We all know I'm a little self-centered, so it scares me. After all, my brother is a whopping 36 years old (I'm 34), our father died at 39 of a heart attack, his father at 49 of a heart attack. My brother has always been a manual labor kind of guy and I've always been the desk jockey. He's always been in better health (from a weight perspective), though he's gained a bit in the last couple of years. So, my own mortality (being mortal, not croaking) is starting to beam in loud and clear. I should probably go on a diet -- tomorrow .

 

[Rich D]

Mike,



Sorry to hear about your brother. Hope everything is o.k.



I have a similar history on my mother's side and should also go on a diet today. (As I eat my whopper and fries).



Rich D

 

[Steve Rizza]

Mike I hope everything is ok with your bro.....



Steve

 

[Steve Rizza]

Unknown Author-

I dont agree with any kind of tactics like the ones you described,a few bad apples give everybody a bad name.



I also don't agree with the companiet using them either.



This is off of the web site you listed.









Smithfield: Quashed a Union Election with Police







When you smell the aroma of sizzling bacon, chances are the pork came from Smithfield Foods. With a multiacre packing plant in Tar Heel, N.C., Smithfield is the nation