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bill murphey

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I recieved a certified letter today about some stuff that was said on this site.It was just some ideas that were tossed around,that were never followed through with.Just some guys talking.I got the letter from a law firm called Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP,in San Fran.([email protected])they represent Nitro and sent the letter as a threat to sue me,lol.That's got to make you a proud Nitro boat owner!So be careful what you say on this site,its not just "the guys"talking.I regret ever buying my boat,and wish I would have saved until I could afford somthing better.but I guess you get what you pay for.Oh,and i hope kirkpatrick enjoys all of his new gay porn subscriptions lol.
 
Just curious, why do you say you regret buying a Nitro? What problems make you feel this way?
 
James I hope it wasn't due to this site as this is the "MOST" Notro friendly site there is!!!!! Maybe it was directed towards those from other sites and they just mentioned ours? I will be interested to see if anyone else gets one, me too for that matter?



Randy!
 
How did they get your address? What did you say that they sent the letter for?
 
it was this site,and they had a copy of everything we said and what member said it.I dont know how they got address.gues i shoulda lied on member profile
 
...probably over the logo you guys wanted to get embroidered for hats. Can't do that folk's...it's called "copyright infringement!"(aka STEALING) No reason to be pissed at Nitro or regret buying a boat....they're just protecting proprietary property!!



Put yourself in THEIR shoes,.....if your neighbor was rippin' off your stuff,...would you turn a blind eye or "talk to him/her?!":blink:















 
there was 10 members listed.2 of them made comments in the post that sounded like they were maybe from nitro,or from the law firm.but i'm not sure.
 
it was not going to be their trademark or their protected word.I can have a dog named nitro and put it on his collar and my hat,so long as its not the same nitro as the boat,with the circle logo.No,really ive had hell with the boat,and the dealer.Ive owned basscat and champion,and to me,they were better boats by far.I just couldnt afford a 20ft boat with a 200 made by ranger,skeeter,champion,basscat,or triton,at the time.i have an 898,and its just cheaply made.
 
It's kind of cool that they take the time to read the comments. I'm sure they use that info to track problems & improve product.
 
so what was the topic? was the post pulled? can anyone email me more info?
 
So, are you Bill... or James? :lol: OP was James, but user is bill murphey, and then you register today as Bill, with bill bill as your name. What happened to James? Should we send out a search party? :p



No offense, but if you don't like your boat - sell it. And why would you even consider making a logo to put on a hat for a boat that you don't like? No matter what you do to change it, putting NITRO on a hat is going to cause you some trouble. You can change it as much as you want, but since you wrote your intentions to do so on a public site, which just so happens to be a NITRO owners site.... you open yourself up to lawsuits.



As far as finding out where you live - not that hard. I can find pretty much anything on anyone. Might cost me a few bucks (legally), but you would be suprised what is available through public records.



Oh,and i hope kirkpatrick enjoys all of his new gay porn subscriptions lol.
Click to expand...



... It's that kind of thing that gets you into more trouble. And posting it publicly? That makes about as much sense as what got you the letter to begin with. I get frustrated with people and companies too, but as I've learned (the hard way at times) - Pick your battles carefully, and be careful what you post in public. It's available for a LONG, LONG, LONG time. I've even known of a gun site board owner that has had his records subpoenaed on numerous occasions. If you don't want future trouble, be cautious what you post in public.



All the best,

Glenn
 
James



Why did they send you the letter? You did not start the thread???
 
yea hats lol.just warning you guys about how they will treat you,thats all.heard he liked gay porn anyway.the boat is what I payed for.does no good to sell it.its not a total piece of junk,it just isnt par with the top guys.I'm not badmouthing nitro.If you pay the price for a dodge nitro,you arent going to recieve a toyota landcruiser.but if you are going to keep the boat for a long time,my advice is to save for the landcruiser!that is all for me,i am no longer a member,thanks for everyones help,and the 2 good frieds ive made on here.See you on Sam Rayburn!
 
Folks, FYI, way back in the day, I asked for (and received) permission to use the Nitro and Tracker logos on this site.



Asking first is the right thing to do. Doubly so with merchandise. Companies and individuals have a right to control how their creative works are used. Where would Mac be if every art school student could freely produce and promote a Scales n Tales knock-off cartoon? Where would Ford be if some company in China could freely put a blue oval with the word Ford on a smog-and-lead-spewing car? Would you want to be in the supermarket and experience confusion over which box of Corn Flakes was made by Kelloggs, and which was made by a fly-by-night sweat shop in Sri Lanka, complete with a healthy dose of rat droppings?



Please respect copyrights and trademarks. When in doubt, ask for permission, and if not given, observe the owner's wishes. Treat intellectual property the same way you treat tangible property. Don't steal it.
 
I hear you, but you can't get what you want out there. They are protecting nothing. The only reason this came up at all is you can't find what you want. If I could buy a Nitro hat at a fair price I would, but I haven't seen any. They should be GIVING hats to us so their name gets more visible, this is mis-guided, and the efforts here are due to lack of availability, not in the interest of cutting them out of 20 bucks. On a lighter note, have you heard the definition of a crying shame? A plane load of lawers crashed......it had an open seat.
 
James/Bill sorry to hear you got the letter. I was one of those who agreed that making hats and selling them with a registered logo/trademark etc on it might get your tail in a crack. I am not, nor in anyway affiliated with Tracker or Nitro.



After working in the oilfield for over 30 years doing design work I have seen way too many issues crop up due to patent infringement and have been subpoenaed twice in cases, no fun my friend. As Rich stated, "Treat intellectual property the same way you treat tangible property. Don't steal it."



As to how that changes my opinion of the company, it does not. I will agree though, from a marketing perspective if you(Tracker/Nitro) want to build brand loyalty and the name recognition, then Tracker/Nitro get off of your duff and put some product out there for purchase. Look at the Ranger gear everywhere.



Berry I am with you, if you buy one new, they should load you up with gear. I bought both of mine used, but would still like the opportunity to purchase a hat.
 
I don't get it, was it over having some hats made? Is that the reason for the letter? I don't know how many times I have said that NITRO/Tracker and BPS check in here on a very regular basis. Not that I blame them for protecting copywritten material i.e, logos. I have to get permission from BPS to even put logos on my truck and shirt and that is being pro-staff. No manufacturer messes around with that stuff. I would guess that the law firm is on a retainer and they scour the net looking for trademark violations. I would have thought if it were Tracker, they would have contacted the infringers and offered a discount on some hats. That's what makes me think that it was the law firm. Tracker does not act like that.



TOXIC
 
I agree with you TritonGlen. If you can't afford it, don't settle. If you do buy it and don't like it, sell it. And most important, if you don't want something to be researched, scrutinized, and used against you for a gain, NEVER post it on the internet.



Eric
 
The thread was "Hats: Update & Revised" and I got a letter also, Certified. My last comment on the thread said that I give up on the idea of making hats and I got this letter along with a copy of the entire thread. Kinda pisses me off but I understand. I have a post card from Tracker wanting me to participate in a survey concerning the purchase of my SECOND NEW Nitro in a year and a half. Maybe I'll mention the need to have hats available to owners when I do the survey. This in no way changes how I feel about MY boat. The letter states that they want me to reply to them to acknowledge that I have read their letter, well here is my acceptance, I read it.

Just in case you are interested in what it says, I'll post it here.

Nitro Cert Letter1.jpg


Nitro Cert Letter2.jpg
 
Now, I'm curious. What about the guy who sells replacement decals? Nitro/BassPro does not provide them after a certain length of time... He's the only source. Is this a problem?:huh:
 
I recieved this cap when I bought my Nitro (2001). They do exist.



<a href="http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/Firedog978/?action=view&current=new-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/Firedog978/new-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 
Not gonna' say I've had the best of luck with ANY issues with Tracker Marine and they ARE a real pain to deal with!:wacko:

 
Thanks for posting the letter. That clears a lot up. Reading it with an open mind, I think they were pretty level headed and didn't threaten in any way. They just wanted to let you know that it would not be a good thing if you went ahead and had hats made without their (Tracker) permission. Go buy a hat at BPS and go to their in-house embroidery shop (select stores) and have them do it for you. No fuss no muss.



TOXIC
 
Yep. I read it the same way Toxic did. I didn't find it threatening at all. It sounded more like they were just letting you know that what was being considered in the past is illegal so that you don't make the mistake of trying to go through with it in the future. I also think they achieved their intended goal, as you did exactly what they wanted you to do - tell everyone that it is illegal. By posting it here, you met their goal, I'm sure.



However, I am not the one getting the letter, and I can also understand how the receiver might have felt if they got it. Last time I received a letter from a law firm, even though I was 100% in the right and my insurance company took care of the frivolous lawsuit and won, I was still ticked off that anyone would even send me such a letter. In the end, I realized it wasn't the lawfirms fault - they are only the messenger, being paid to do a job. They did what they were paid to do.



For Greg's question of replacement decals - If Nitro (or any other company for that matter) wanted to press charges, then yes - unlicensed reproduction of the logos could result in a lawsuit. They have to find the violators first though. Posting about it in a public forum is so easily searched, those are usually the first people that get served. I personally know of someone in VA who would not reproduce a vinyl logo without written permission from the company. He did have several companies permission paperwork on hand though. I also know of a VA embroidery company with the same business practice. I tried to get sponsor logo's printed on my jacket at one point in time, and even though I had the company provided logo on disk in the correct format they needed (I think it was called "Melco" format), they wouldn't do it without written permission from the company. When I requested permission, every one of my sponsors sent it to me in writing, and it was very specific as to who had permission to use it. I was written for me to have a company do the embroidery for my own personal use, and not for the embroidery company to just use it from that point on or for me to reproduce it for resale. I still have them on file at the house. Some have expiration dates; some do not.



All the best,

Glenn
 
Jimmy thanks for posting the letter. I got a letter many years ago involving a drawing of a potential product I considered offering for sale. Ticked me off, talked to my lawyer, he told me to blow it off, the guy did not have a leg to stand on in regards to a patent issue.



I agree with Toxic and Glenn, well written, non-threatening, just informing you of the potential consequences. I will disagree with them(the lawyers) though on the availability of product on the BPS website. They obviously have not followed up on that.



I think we all should just go to the dang lake and fish.



See ya.

Ed
 
Here's the thing - threatening or not - They are REQUIRED by trademark law to defend their marks vigerously - or they can lose them. (think Kleenex or Tylenol) - Trademarks have to be defended - so if they see something that might infringe, they have to do that - no matter how 'silly' it may seem. What happens is if they don't fight this one, the next one gets to use this one as evidence that Nitro isnt defending it.
 
Good Thread,



I agree with Toxic, It was not in any way threatening. I do believe that Johnny should be informed of whats going on here and remedy the situation by making some decent hats and apparel available to NITRO owners. He could actually make a few bucks if he knew how in demand they are. When I had mine they gave me a crappy hat. Still have it but I dont like the colors.



My 2 cents.



Mark
 
I hear you, but you can't get what you want out there. They are protecting nothing. The only reason this came up at all is you can't find what you want.
Click to expand...



If you want to have a BBQ, but don't have a grill, would you take it upon yourself to go into someone else's backyard borrow theirs because it's not being used at the moment?



When you own something, you have a right to use it, not use it, destroy it, deny it to others, or anything else you see fit, for whatever reason you see fit.



If I could buy a Nitro hat at a fair price I would, but I haven't seen any. They should be GIVING hats to us so their name gets more visible, this is mis-guided, and the efforts here are due to lack of availability, not in the interest of cutting them out of 20 bucks.
Click to expand...



Write their marketing dept. and let them know how you feel.



On a lighter note, have you heard the definition of a crying shame? A plane load of lawers crashed......it had an open seat.
Click to expand...



Good one.
 
this is the best NITRO site out there....and I understand NITRO/TRACKER being concerned about protecting their logos......kind like walt disney.......I just hope that TRACKER uses common sense and views this sight as a positive to their brand...best fishes :cool:
 
Why didn't they go after Chrysler for using 'Nitro'? Why didn't Dupont go after Tracker?

They developed Nitro a long time ago? I still don't understand all of this? Had I a Dodge Nitro there isn't anything Tracker could do to me for having a hat made with "Nitro" on it! You can go into BPS and get a hat with Nitro all over it if you want!

I also don't agree with the analogies comparing any of this to stealing Unless someone was preparing to manufacture a number of their trademarked items like hats or shirts and planned to sell them.

I would seriously doubt any lawsuit aimed at an individual whom created a cap for his personal use, using either Nitro or Tracker on it, would happen. I also can't imagine Nitro/Tracker or whomever suing an individual for replacing the torn up decals on his boat. Wanting to see their product looking ragged should not be on any manufacturers agenda. I am also going to have to do some research because I believe once you buy a boat from Nitro or Tracker you own it and everything on it. I will bet you have the right to replace any decal you see fit to unless it's written in your sale agreement!



Uncle Billy
 
IMHO - Having held industrial patents and enduring the legal process to own rights to an idea, I would think one would be grateful for the heads up in writing that was not heeded in several suggestions to refrain in earlier posts. I see no disrespect or disregard in the letters posted. Watching this unfold over the past few weeks made me wonder when Tracker would be seen by several here as the one (quite undeservedly) on the bottom of this hog-pile. :wacko: Many companies are not as forward/preventive and will wait for a bigger prize after proof of infringement. (Mo munny fo duh sharks!!! :lol: ) They (the legal firm) were steadfast and firm, which is what any of us would expect from representation on retainer.



FWIW - Tracker holds this site in very high regard. ;)
 
Why didn't they go after Chrysler for using 'Nitro'? Why didn't Dupont go after Tracker?
Click to expand...



Brand name vice product name. There are lots of products called Nitro - but that's not the brand's name, just the product. Note that on all of the car companies hats, the trademarked logo is "Dodge Nitro", not just Nitro.



http://www.motorbrandsusa.com/Dodge-Nitro-Hat-p/x60-400-h200blk.htm



Whether you "agree" with the analogies or not is not really important. The law firm will not care if you "agree" with the law or not either. We can debate this all day long for weeks on end and probably will never agree.



The questions I really have are these:

1) Are you willing to risk a lawsuit simply to make and wear a hat with your boat name on it? :lol:

2) Even if you were to win a lawsuit regarding this subject, is it worth your time, energy and money? :wacko: (Refer to #1)

3) Why would you chose to do something illegally if you know there is a way to aquire said product legally?



For those about to pounce on #3 - Toxic told you all how to get one, but just in case you didn't read his response, he basically said:



Some BPS stores have embroidery shops where they can LEGALLY make you a Nitro hat. Find one (in person, email, phone, snail mail, etc...) and pay for them to make you a hat.



I'll put this offer out to anyone - If I come across a BPS in my travels (San Antonio doesn't have it - but the one near Pearland or Houston might), I'll spend enough time in the store to post on this forum via my Iphone, and wait for orders to pour in. I'll buy the hats and ship them to anyone wanting one. Now, if that isn't one heck of an offer, I don't know what is. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:



All the best,

Glenn

 
Even easier than that - I just called BPS embroidery at 1-866-389-2662, and confirmed that they do have the Nitro logo, can put it on hats, and you can place a PHONE ORDER in a few seconds.



Problem solved. Order your hats today!



All the best,

Glenn
 
After looking for a while, I too, found the link on the BPS website to call about embroidering, think I will give them a call. As far as BPS in house embroidering, I don't remember which one it was but I have been in one that had an embroidering shop. And I am sorry to have stirred up so much trouble.
 
I just did a google search on "Nitro Hats" and this thread came up on the first page. Just goes to prove what Glenn was saying, if you are going to do something don't post it on a public web site. I am glad it was aired out before I even had a hat made for me, if it came up later I would have to leave the hat at home and just look at it. Good call everyone that said don't do it. By the way, we must have stirred up some business for the embroidering shop at BPS, twice yesterday and twice today I got the answering machine to leave a message.
 
Uh Oh
Click to expand...



Ok, Arrest that golf ball!!!:angry::p:lol:



Down Boy, Down Glenn... I didn't know the difference between brand name and product name and still don't.. Nor do I care. I never said I didn't agree with the laws, I said I didn't agree with the "analogies" comparing what we were discussing to theft! Obviously you can't make Nitro hats with the purpose of selling them.

To answer your questions.

1. NO - Because there wouldn't be any such lawsuit! There isn't a corporation in this country that would sue an individual for having A hat made with his boats logo on it. None! The amount of rotten publicity they would receive just wouldn't be worth it for them. That and the Judge saying, "get the heck out of here".

2. Again, there wouldn't be a lawsuit to defend! What would the plaintiff's damages be?

No court would ever hear a case of Nitro/Tracker vs. My Hat.

3. I didn't think I said I was going to do anything illegal? More than hats I was talking about disintegrated, peeling, discolored boat decals and I still don't know if replacing them would be illegal or not. I'm not jumping into law books to find out for sure but I would imagine it is not illegal if the boat manufacturer does not provide them anymore. Who would want to have their own made if they could get them from Nitro or Tracker? If a lettering or decal firm started making them in abundance to sell that 'might' be a different matter.

I just thought this was a good conversation and didn't know it was going to get as serious as it did. I have NO plans on doing anything illegal Glenn and if I do I'll have the arresting Leo's call you first.



BTW, another interesting fact. The Classic Chevy Club in Florida made parts for 1955,1956,1957 Chevrolet's. Sued by G.M. for making parts for those cars and for also importing other parts from Mexico, it was thrown out of court about thirty years ago with the courts admonishment to return to making the parts themselves. When asked if they were going to do that they answered "no". That did it. The last I heard was that G.M. was appealing but I don't know what happened.



Uncle Billy
 
Down Boy, Down Glenn...



1. NO - Because there wouldn't be any such lawsuit! There isn't a corporation in this country that would sue an individual for having A hat made with his boats logo on it. None! The amount of rotten publicity they would receive just wouldn't be worth it for them. That and the Judge saying, "get the heck out of here".

2. Again, there wouldn't be a lawsuit to defend! What would the plaintiff's damages be?

No court would ever hear a case of Nitro/Tracker vs. My Hat.

3. I didn't think I said I was going to do anything illegal? More than hats I was talking about disintegrated, peeling, discolored boat decals and I still don't know if replacing them would be illegal or not. I'm not jumping into law books to find out for sure but I would imagine it is not illegal if the boat manufacturer does not provide them anymore. Who would want to have their own made if they could get them from Nitro or Tracker? If a lettering or decal firm started making them in abundance to sell that 'might' be a different matter.

I just thought this was a good conversation and didn't know it was going to get as serious as it did. I have NO plans on doing anything illegal Glenn and if I do I'll have the arresting Leo's call you first.



BTW, another interesting fact. The Classic Chevy Club in Florida made parts for 1955,1956,1957 Chevrolet's. Sued by G.M. for making parts for those cars and for also importing other parts from Mexico, it was thrown out of court about thirty years ago with the courts admonishment to return to making the parts themselves. When asked if they were going to do that they answered "no". That did it. The last I heard was that G.M. was appealing but I don't know what happened.



Uncle Billy
Click to expand...



First of all UB - I'm not a dog. I might bark a bit (and have been known to bite when cornered), but I don't do sit, stay, or "down" very well. :lol: (Note - I'm laughing. It's all humerous to me at this point).



On your #1 and #2 - you contradicted yourself and proved my point with your last paragraph in the above quote, without me having to do any research at all. Companies can, and will sue people for doing such a thing. Yes, there have been cases. Whether thrown out of court or not is not the point. The time, effort and money you have to spend is not worth the headache. The fact that GM was appealing it further drives home my point. These people had to go back to court AGAIN. I started to type about two cases that I am familiar with (both archery related - one about a bow press, the other about lighted nocks), but stopped and erased it. We could continue this forever, but I can tell you and I are just going to disagree anyway, so I'm not going to make this longer than I already have.



The point I was trying to make - YES - you can be sued. It happens. To people who least expect it. YES, it will cost you time, money and frustration if it happens. NO - it isn't worth it to either get a hat with your name on it, etc... (including stickers on your boat). If you disagree, that's fine. But keep what you do to yourself. If you don't, then please post when you get a letter from a law firm. :lol:



Yes, I'm still laughing at this point. I'm not barking or getting riled up at all. I find this all very amusing.



All the best,

Glenn
 
Hi guys,



I read this post with great interest....really good points. Although as a canuck I worry about the legal system in the states, where in this case nothing was actually done, 'cept for free speech.



I can only sum this up in one word...petty. The cost of sending the letters would have easily covered the cost of laying up a few hats and would have had the opposite effects.....making customers feel special, something that rarely happens in the new "big box" reality.





Letters can be addressed directly to me.



Pierre
 
I finally got a call back from them and I asked for an email on the options I had for hats. There were two, one of the "circled nitro emblem" and one "Nitro performance bass boats". Aren't those the same two we were kicking around on the post that started all this? Maybe they are listening or is it just a coincidence?
 
The part to remember on the lawyers and the law firm is this: 'they are paid a retainer to follow up and discourage any type of brand infrigement that is needed, no matter that it may seem trivial'. Trivial today, can become non-trivial tomorrow.



Sat on a jury once (civil trial) whereby the case being brought was a slam dunk from the execution of the law. As soon as the case went to the 'defense', it was dismissed. What did I learn from this.



Anyone, at any time, can bring a lawsuit in this country - which it will cost the defandant to defend.



Glad to hear you are getting some action on the hats.



Tex
 
This all freaks me out! I am trying to find the foam filled vinyl decals - that by the way I can't find as all I can find are NITRO letters in black/gold, not black/silver - because the O came off on one side. We opted for having NITRO painted on...after reading all of this post - I'm stuck. Any thoughts?



Thanks!



P.S. Our boat is only a 2007 - how hard should this be???!!?
 
Whew.....you dug back a long way for this one. Any decal shop can make the decals for the exterior of the boat...Darryl at Iguana Graphics has done many. This thread was about something completely different.



TOXIC
 
Suzanne - I agree with Tox on this one. There is a huge difference (legally) between using someone else's trademark (i.e., "Nitro") on merchandise that is sold (or even given away). Its quite another matter to replace an emblem or decal that has worn away and was originally on the boat that you purchased from Nitro. If you want to be sure (or even if you want ideas on where to purchase replacements), contact Nitro directly. I'm sure their customer service department can help you.
 
Or just say your going to have some hats made and wait for them to contact you. ;)



Gene
 
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