Gun question - Rem 870 Tactical

[Texas Transplant]

Okay, I know that I'll get some good feedback here. We just finished moving about three weeks ago (we were able to find and purchase an older home that we simply love), and during all the packing/unpacking - we of course had to deal with my pistols and ammo. No problems.



However, I am once again thinking about home protection, since not too far from our neighborhood, is a fairly large area/neighborhood that is more drepressed economically - and likely has some crime problems. Good thing is that the Eastside Police Station is in the area also - actually not sure if that's a good thing, or a bad thing.



However, after discussing it with my wife, I'm once again looking at home defense. This time, not a handgun, but rather a shotgun. Specifically (at least at the moment), I'm interested in the Remington 870 Tactical - 12 gauge. I've read many reviews, but also wanted to see if there are any first hand reviews from the folks here - or suggestions/reviews on other shotguns.



I have also looked at the Model 887, which is based on the 870.



Let er rip. I'm anxious to get the feedback.



Tex

 

[Gary Clune2]

Welcome to Texas, Tex... I too live in Texas (just NW of San Antonio). Any 870, in my opinion, is a good choice. I have a 3" Magnum 870 loaded with "00" Buck that I use for home defense. But there are 2 warning systems that I have that make the use of that 870 for defense highly unlikely. One is an exceptionally loud Miniature Dachshund who will let me know right now if anyone is around. She's my warning. The other is a sign that reads: "WARNING...We don't call 911". That's the would be perpetrator's warning. It's worked well for years.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Thanks, but I've been here a long time. The 'Texas Transplant' comes from when I found Rich and the gang here, but I was living in SC. I'm now back 'home' in Fort Worth. Grew up in North Houston - out where the airport (IAH) is now; Aldine. I see you are NW of San Antonio.



Tex

 

[Jason J.]

I like the 870 tactical. I prefer the pistol grip version with the ghost ring sites, it is a very solid shotgun. Mossberg also makes a great shotgun, but my personal favorite is the Benelli 1014/M490(very expensive). I have shot my friends 1014 and its the cadillac of tactical shotguns. I think you will not be disappointed with the 870, but it is a bit large to move in a small hallway. You can't beat a good 1911 .45ACP for home defense.

 

[G8rmac]

IMO, you can't beat an 870. Works any time, every time, regardless of conditions. And when it's dead quiet in the dark, the sound of that first round going in the chamber is a universal language!!! :lol:

 

[Jeffry Skidmore]

I have a .40 cal. that I carry, but for HD I have a Mossberg Marine Defender. Short(but legal) barrel, 8 shot capacity, and pistol grip. I too load with 00, and keep it close to my bed. I traded for this one and I also own Remington. I like both, and they fit my budget better than a benelli.

 

[Gilbert Scales2]

Tex, buy yourself a youth model 20 gauge. Wife can shoot it, great defense gun. Another thing, hope you never have to use it. If you do however, todays courts and lawyers make a big deal of a tactical weapon used by someone. The 20 gauge ballistics are right up there with the 12.



Bubby

 

[Bill McElroy]

The 870 is perfect TT,...it's the #1 selling shotgun in the world. I have the "combo" in .20ga...which came with a 22" fully rifled barrel for slugs and a 24" smooth bore that I use for rabbit's and birds. Very dependable, and I've put 100's of rounds through it and never had a failure. If you're thinking solely "home defense" I'd get the pistol grip...if you ever want to hunt, than you'll want the full stock.



Like g8rmac said,...the racking of the chamber is universally understood as "Ohhhh @#$!"

 

[Texas Transplant]

I certainly like the history of the 870, and being such a popular gun it has soooooo many goodies that you can buy aftermarket. I'm going to go by the 'new gun shop' not far from my home (new to me - just haven't been in as yet) and see what they have in stock. I'm leaning towards the full stock, or the full w/pistol grip also. But I would prefer to handle several models first.



Thanks for the feedback, from all.



Tex

 

[Rich Stern]

Sorry, I'm gonna buck the trend here and say Mossberg 500 or 590.



On a couple of occassions, I've seen Rem 870 users short stroke the pump and get a hangup that takes a few extra seconds to clear. It's something I have never seen or experienced with my 500.



870 fans will say "operator error"...and that's true, but under stress, those things happen and it's best if the design tolerates misuse without penalizing the user. Otherwise, great gun.

 

[Texas Transplant]

That is the 'other' shotgun that I see come up as a solid recommendation also. When I go looking, I'll have to take a look at their offererings also.



Thanks Rich. Your comments are always appreciated.



Tex

 

[Greg Meyer]

Something to remember... you have possibly some loved ones "inside" with you... So, pay attention here... Inside 20 feet a load of #6 lead will expand to about 4-6 inches... but will seriously reduced in lethality after passing through 2 sheets of drywall but will be a softball sized slug of lead across the livimg room. So, I have always advocated... for home defense... remove the plug (you aren't duck hunting so you can have 5 shots) the first 2 are #6 and after that #4 buckshot. Outside facing crazies use #00 buckshot (9-12 pellets) but inside #4 (24 .25 caliber pellets)



Choose your shotgun flavor (brand) wisely... Mine is an 1100 .12ga with an 8 shot magazine... (No warning "chunk-chunk"...just "bang-bang"). There is also a .20ga pump lying in wait in each of two more places, loaded with #6 to buy me time to get to the "citadel/alamo" location in the house.

 

[TritonGlenn]

My first shotgun was a gloss stock Winchester 1300 pump with what appeared to be a diamond-pattern polished bolt. Preeeeeeeety. :lol: That gun lasted all of one hunting trip before the shell ejector broke. My dad brought that pretty gun back to the store and exchanged it for a plain-jane Mossberg 500 pump. No frills there. Dull finish on the stock and metal parts. Nothing really shiny, glossy or bright except for the bolt, and even that was a dull silver. I beat that Mossberg to hell and back and it never failed to function - ever.



Had a buddy that swore that the Remington 870 was a better gun. His Wingmaster looked awesome, but I shot just as many ducks from the sky with my Mossy as he did. My Mossy cost a whole lot less than his Wingmaster too.



But now Remington has come out with their 870 Express and lots of new models of the 870 that don't appear to be anywhere near the quality of their older 870's. Might just be me, but I haven't found the quality of a lot of Remington products to be anywhere near the quality they used to be. My buddy bought the new 887, and it's a nice firearm, but I don't know how it will hold up long-run.



My all time favorite pump though - the Browning BPS. I love the weight (it's heavier), bottom eject, and a host of other features on that firearm. I own two right now - one 12 and one 20. Best part about those - they are great for lefties or righties with that bottom eject. That is why I'm holding on to them - my son is a lefty.



Problem with my favorite though - almost "0" aftermarket parts. Absolutely nothing in the line of home defense barrels / extended mags / etc... being offered for it. So if I had to choose between any of them right now, my choice would be the Mossberg 500.



All the best,

Glenn



P.S. - Greg - I'm hesitant to buy any, because my thought process when pulling a gun is to put down the threat, not "scare it away" (I don't want it coming back pissed off later), but the other day at a local gun show I saw "hornets nest" 12 gauge shotgun shells - filled with rubber balls the size of 00 buckshot. They also had "bean bag" rounds, with a miniature bean bag inside of one. They were on the "less than lethal" table. I passed, and bought more "lethal" rounds instead, but was wondering what your thoughts on those items were. I think I know your answer, but wanted to check.

 

[TritonGlenn]

But there are 2 warning systems that I have that make the use of that 870 for defense highly unlikely. One is an exceptionally loud Miniature Dachshund who will let me know right now if anyone is around. She's my warning. The other is a sign that reads: "WARNING...We don't call 911".

geezer,

I understand your stance on this subject. Not saying your wrong or right, but I'm of a bit different opinion on the subject. I have dogs, and they too provide a warning / protection factor. However, I'm not a fan of "warnings" (to perps - to me, I welcome them!). If perps are in my house, I see no reason to warn them that I'm armed so that they can either pinpoint me with their own firearm, make a getaway and come back when I'm not there, or go and get a gun and then come back immediately. I too live in San Antonio - Far NW side over by SeaWorld, but outside of the 1604c loop.

And when it's dead quiet in the dark, the sound of that first round going in the chamber is a universal language!!!

Like g8rmac said,...the racking of the chamber is universally understood as "Ohhhh @#$!"

g8rmac / Mac,

I'd agree - it's a universal language. But it could say a great deal that you don't want being said as well. Things such as:

1) I really don't want to shoot this, so I'm hoping like hell this will scare you away. (Goes both ways - good and bad)

2) I wasn't prepared for you to show up. I normally don't keep a round chambered unless I know someone is actually in the house. (So please don't surprise me later when I again don't have a round chambered).

3) Worse sound ever - Chuuuck chu... chu... chu.... (Gun that jammed as you racked it back, short stroked it forward, and got a round hung up).



Like I said to geezer - not saying your way is wrong - just offering a difference of opinion, along with my reason why. I'm not a fan of warning or scaring someone in my house intending to do harm. If I'm warning them, it's right as I'm about to shoot, so they don't have time to turn the tables on me.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Jason J.]

If you ever have to use a firearm and you are using lethal rounds, you should always aim to kill. If you shoot someone in the leg or arm to "scare" them off it is considered intent to injure which is a crime. Warning shoots are also a no no. If you have time to shoot a warning shoot a lawyer will say your life was not being threatened enough to use lethal force. Its stupid that you can be convicted of murder for defending your own home, but it is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6

P.S. I hope none of you ever have to worry about using a gun to protect your home or family.

 

[Greg Meyer]

As J. Edgar Hoover said; "All waning shots should be fired between the belt and the neck". While Illinois does not have a statutorily defined "castle doctrine", we are not required to warn or retreat. If a reasonable person perceives a threat of death or great bodily harm (so.... if I find you in my home and you are NOT the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy) any further conversation you hear will be from the coroner or fueral director. I will not warn you...If I think you are a threat to me (you know like in my home at night, etc. looking nefarious...no presents, eggs or money in hand while wearing a universally recognizeable costume appropriate to the holiday season or a teeny tiny wing critter carrying money) you will die...period!



Glenn,



I have never been an advocate of non-lethal force for self defense... I suppose in riot control situations, tc... but not in my home... (repeat my answer above) However, do some experiments with #6 shot inside 20 feet and then with some drywall and you will see what I advocate for the safety of your loved ones inside the house. And, also I have a shoulder rig with my .45 set to go with the shotgun so I have some choices in response.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Greg,

I figured you would be of that opinion. That's what I leaned towards too. The concept seemed inviting at first, but I couldn't help but think of the less than lethal stuff just pissing them off and having them come at me.



I'm going to check the drywall thing next range trip. If for anything - I just like to test stuff out. Should be fun to see. Great advice. Thanks.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Greg Meyer]

Put a five gallon bucket with water at 20' and shoot it with #6 high base hunting loads... Then line up a second bucket 2' away from 2 sheets of drywall 3-4 inches apart... Noticeable difference... but the plain hit on the bucket with #6s is impressive at less than 20 feet.



I used pepper spray once and only once.... bothered me and my partner a whole lot more than the [perp. I am an old geezer... I carried an 8" flat sap in uniform...less than lethal but very effective on shuins, collar bones and sometimes elsewhere. I was also not adverse to judicious use of a night stick... Today I might considr a Taser, might is the operative word.