JD Powers - Boat ratings

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Texas Transplant

Texas Transplant

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Just got a chance to read the report on Bassfan concerning the JD Powers reports on boats.



No way to dilute it, but the report card for Nitro is just not very good. To keep coming in on the bottom of the pile, with poor numbers, is just not a good thing.



The bad thing about these reports/ratings, is that if someone does not get enough sales and returns, they are not tallied. Good statistically, but doesn't give a very good overall view.



Tex
 
My question is ; Who is J D Powers and assc. anyway? And should I really be concerned about what they think or say for that matter ?
 
I agree with Gross. Does anyone know of someone getting surveyed by JD Power? I have never even heard of them until they started ranking boats and stuff. Who made them experts?
 
I went to their web site and they don't even mention tin boats. Anyone know why? There also were some glass companies not in the survey.
 
JD Powers and Assoc. is the largest and most reputable group in the world for tallying info on consumer opinions regarding quality, customer satisfaction and consumer confidence in the automotive industry,....companies live and die by their ratings and if you've ever read a consumers digest, it's all about the "ratings". They're the group that ALL the major auto mfgrs love to love, hate and fear!! They only started rating boats and outboards 3 years ago,...why?? Customer demand and mfgr demand.....they all wanted to know where they stood with regards to qlty, customer satisfaction (before and AFTER the sale) warranty, and many other areas.....but it is based on totally "independant" data (JD Powers) and not derived by each companie's internal spin dr's......When JD Powers talks,.....people listen!! Especially the investor's, stock market analysts, company execs and MOST importantly,.....future CUSTOMERS!!....They (JDP) are brutally honest and don't hold anything back.....what you see is what you "deserve" with them!! We have corporate wide "mandatory" ALL EMPLOYEE meetings to go over the results when they come out regarding cars and trucks....it's where the "benchmarking" targets are set and future courses of action set in place for improving every aspect of the business....when you have a great score from JDP, it proves you have a great product,,...when you have a lowsy score....you have a lot to improve upon...not based on JDP's opinion,...it's based on the results of the 1000's of customer's survey's that are tallied by JDP. Completely independant,....and NOT "paid off" by any Mfgr to skew the results,....they are the consumer reporting agency that EVERYONE respects and fears at the same time.



Mac
 
No they don't own any boat, therefore are objective and unbiased. Remember if Tracker/Nitro rated low (didn't look so I don't know), it was because other owners surveyed are NOT happy with their boats. We have all seen the stories here, how many do you suppose happen to folks that don't know about this site. It's not anything against anyone, so let's not get any panties in a bunch. Just means if you rate well you should keep doing the same things. If you rate poorly, you have a lot of room for improvement. They can either improve or not. They can also stay in business or not based on the same decisions.
 
exactly,.....it's entirely up to the companies involved in the ratings to do what they will with the info!! They can choose to do nothing,...or they can choose to improve! GM has made HUGE improvements in Quality, and CS, and ultimately sales and market share based on the results of the JDP survey's. It's not an "individuals" opinion here...it's "customer's feedback"......you can either listen to your customers or not.....it's up to the company's mgt what direction they'll take!
 
How do JDP pick who to send survey's to? i have never recieved a survey of any type on any new vehicle i have ever owned. i dont think anyone in my family has either. I could have written them a novel on all the problems i had with my last truck.
 
Both Toyota and Subaru asked me what I thought about my van and wagon after I bought it.



Consumer Reports asks me every year. And I tell them every year.

I don't buy into the JDP reports at all. Don't look at them and don't care what they say. It is just another form of advertising. I can understand why a manufacturer may be scared to death. Their competitors will be quick to point out where they stand on "the list".



I still don't buy "American Cars" because I still don't see their design or quality up to snuff. I used to work on them professionally in my previous life.

My Toyota was manufactured in Tenn or KY and my Subaru in Indiana. Both are really good DEPENDABLE vehicles. I attribute that to both their design and their workforce training. IMHO.



david....
 
In any event, it is a poor showing for NITRO. JDP doesn't lie. They can't be bought off by manufacturers otherwise the bottom of the list would be crying foul every rating period. You may not agree with their methods of evaluation or their critera but being on the bottom of any customer satisfaction list is not good. I personally like MY boat, I have had no problems, but they didn't ask me!! Considering the number of rigs NITRO sells, they ought to be able to stay on top of the polls by sheer volume alone (more sales = more happy campers as a % of complaints)!! I would love to be a fly on the wall at the national dealers meetings where these topics are discussed.



TOXIC
 
As talked about above, JD Powers does no actual rating themselves. They distribute and complie (in association with manufacturers) customer feedback from those buying goods and/or services.



To get listed in the rankings, you (as a manufacturer) must be participating and also have a minimum number of surveys completed by your customers.



If any manufacturer is listed with poor scores, it's because the consumers have rated them as such. Nitro sells lots and lots of boats. They obviously have a poor report card, as compared to others. Does this mean they build bad boats. No. But it does mean that a large percentage of the consumers that bought a Nitro, and filled out/returned the JD Powers survey, did not think that their Nitro's deserved a better score.



As Mac said, the JD Powers rating can be a real feather in the cap of a manufacture, and it also can be a real stick in the eye.



What Nitro's ranking should tell Nitro is this:



They need to do a better job. Improve. For me, it's not that they are on the bottom of the list, it's that they have such poor scores. Remember, if those scores are averages, that means that they got some pretty bad report cards. It also means that Ranger (leading the pack), got very few bad report cards. If you are operating on a 1-5 scale and consistenly get 5's, you are doing something right.



Tex
 
JDP's survey "picks" are entirely random.....I've never been called for a "Nielson" rating survey either and I watch a lot of TV!! I do get calls after each vehicle purchase though and I was called "once" regarding a boat purchase (had my 901 at the time) and I have not been called since,....that was 3-4yrs ago.



I do believe that companies that participate in the JDP program do provide them with names and phone #s of their customer's.....hoping that they ARE satisified and will participate in any surveys if called, and will provide honest info.....it'll only help improve their products. If you do get a call and you don't want to participate in the survey,..then you don't have to,...it's entirely random and voluntary.



 
I buy into the JD Powers report. They don't hold anything back. If you do enough research you will probably find out that they are right. They always have been in the past for me and they have swayed my decisions on autos in the past...maybe boats in the future.
 
I subscribe to Trailer Boats mag, they did a survey of thier readers/web-site visitors with the quesiton "How much influence will the J.D. Powers Initial Customer Sat survey results have on your next boat/engine buying decision?" What I thought was very interesting was that not ONE person listed JD Powers as a "deciding factor" in the boat/engine decision. 25% said it was a "major factor", 33% said a "minor factor" and 40% said "no factor".



Personaly I look but use survey results like that as a Minor factor in my decisions. Mac is right that companies DO use that information to change their marketing, product and quality approaches. For me, for instace, we subscribe to Consumer Reports and have bought a few of the cars listed on thier "do not buy used" list with ZERO problems, as we've bought them either from a dealer as "certified used" or from a big-box shop like Carmax who certify the vehicles.



Personaly, I rely more on word of mouth from folks like the ones here and other other sites I frequent as well as friends. When I get ready to buy a new boat Nitro/Tracker will definetly be in the running, but i'll also look at other makes, as I did for this one.



Trep
 
and most educated consumers use the same approach...JDP is not a consumers "bible" per se,.....it's just another source of very reliable "info" based entirely on customer feedback. Just like this board,...it's a collective group of opinions!



and we all know about "opinions"....also Trep,..I've never made a purchase in my life based on JDP results either,..you wouldn't catch me buying a Japanese car or truck if it was the only one available!! But that's just my "opinion",...i choose to buy American whenever possible!

I've never had a BAD American car,....and i've owned/leased a LOT of them over the past 25yrs....almost all GM! I've owned Chevy's, Pontiac's, Buick's and a 1971 Plymouth Duster!! LOL...That was my college beater,...I put 3 tranny's and 5 starters in that thing and probably 60,000 miles....with the last 10,000 having "NO Reverse!!" LOLOL



 
The problem with most surveys is this:



The majority of the most VOCAL people fall into two camps:



1. Completely satisfied

2. Completely unsatisfied



and of those groups, #2 is more likely to respond to surveys and tell others what they think.



Unfortunately, for Tracker Marine, there have been alot of people in the #2 group, and those people usually can't seperate what's the fault of the dealer vs the product at hand.



It would appear that the majority of Ranger dealers have a much higher standard to hold to.



This is what Tracker Marine needs to address if they want to change their rankings.



 
You got that right Simmy! Bottom line is regardless of what JD thinks...Tracker is still #1 in sales and Nitro ain't too far behind! They are still the best buy for the money...is that JD Clampett or Jethro?

TEE
 
Mac - "you wouldn't catch me buying a Japanese car or truck if it was the only one available!! " Of course not, one day in the GM employee parking lot and it' would be HISTORY!!! LOL



We currently run 1 GM (my new 2002 saturn) and 1 Korean (my wife's Kia minivan). We've owned almost all brands/nationalities and everyone has their reasons to buy what they buy. Thats what makes America great!
 
Here is why the survey means NOTHING!



1. Ranger owners are seldom first-time owners. If they are, they probably don't use it much anyway.



2. Nitro owners are very often first-time owners. Nitro is priced aggressively.



3. More people complain if their '83 Escort won't start, than 2003 Rolls Royce owners under the same circumstances.



4. No one likes to admit that they're wrong, especially when there's money on the line. If you make a decision you regret, and it's your first of that item, you blame the manufacturer. After that, you have to accept blame. To avoid accepting blame, you admit to no problems.



5. On Ranger, people are paying extra over any other brand. Boston Whaler is no different.



6. Short of the actual engineering of the boat that determines handling and performance, the rest is all similar.



7. If a bilge pump in a Nitro fails, Nitro's are pieces of crap. If a bilge pump in a Ranger fails, Rule is a piece of crap (maker of bilge pump).



8. First time boat buyers are NOT overly-educated and don't understand boat setup (nor care).



So, in the end, Nitro is an entry-level priced boat (with the exception of the 9 series). Ranger's entry level boat is more expensive than the same size top-of-the-line Nitro.



I'm not saying Nitro is or isn't the best boat made, nor am I saying Ranger is or isn't. Ranger folks are brand loyal, Triton too. Skeeter has their loyal following as well.



If the owner of a Ford Powerstroke had problems and was sent a survey, he'd still answer favorably because "at least it's not a 'dodge or chevy'".



One thing that cannot be written off is that Nitro doesn't hold resale value very well. Another is, the 9-series is just plain HEAVY (good if you want strength, bad if you want speed).



 
My 9 will run in the high 60's low 70's depending on conditions and that's fast enough for me. I like the dry and smooth ride. I also like the heavier weight, I don't get tossed around as much but.........they gotta work on those customer service ratings, that's a fact!! There is an overall "attitude" out there that is going to be hard to overcome, it can be done but it will take time. I predict it will happen.



TOXIC
 
What I find particulary funny is the "5" Ranger got in the "value" category. What a joke.



Sure Ranger makes a decent product, but I don't see how 40-50k for a 20 footer is any kind of value. Your average Ranger owner also has a tendancy to remain silent when they have any kind of problem.
 
The problem is that poor ratings in surveys like this are what hurt our resale values. Of course I think it is pretty universal that no used boat reguardless of brand is worth what we the owner think it is or need it to be! It could be argued that paying a premium for a 5 star boat that will earn a better resale value just shifts your "loss" to the front of your boat transaction!



I do agree that the dealership standards are probably where the majority of the poor scores originate...and it is to a degree Nitro's responsibility to set and enforce those standards.



--Corey
 
Like a lot of you, I really like my nitro, but I do wish the trailer had been a better one. I'm afraid I'll need to replace it soon, or I'll not be able to get anywhere with it.

Rainy
 
Trep.,..there's a lot of GM employees that drive other mfgr's cars,.....driving a gm product is not required and I've even seen "management" people driving Jag's and Chryslers!! Now THAT should raise a few flags but it doesn't. At the Chrysler Tech Center down the road..if you drive a DCX product, you can park anywhere you want,....if you drive a GM or Ford,...you gotta park in a designated "Non DCX" area,...and if you drive any kind of Japanese or Korean product,...you gotta park WAAAYYYY back!!

Now that's the way it oughta be!!! LOL...Here at the GM Tech Ctr, you can park what ever you want,..where ever you want! We have equal opportunity parking here!! LOL
 
Mac,



Are you downtown near the 'Crystal Palaces', or somewhere else? Spent one winter in Detroit in the old GM HDQ building four years ago. Sad to see an old building like that going downhill. I happened to be there when the General Motors lights went out for the last time, and when they started taking down the sign.



Tex
 
GM's new World Hdqtr's is the Renassaince(sp?) Bldg right on the river in downtown Detroit,..(it's the tallest bldg in Detroit and it's always the focal point when you see pix's of the Detroit sky line)..GM bought it from Ford!! LOL The old GM Hdqtr's that you're refering to is empty.....they moved out of there about 3-4yrs ago. I work in Warren at the Tech Center where all of the North American engineering is taking place,...HUGE complex!!
 
Rainy -



I'm with you on that one. My only complaint on my first Nitro - a 1995 Nitro 180DC - was the trailer. It was constructed very poorly and I had to rework it in many ways.



I loved the boat!







Mike - I agree with your veiwpoint on first time buyers.







JD Powers may not be a major factor in anyone's final decission on any given boat - but every little bit piles up.....



me!
 
JD Powers has an impact on first time buyers, as does Consumer Reports. After all, they know everything.... :(



At the Chrysler plant in STL, I had a friend who was pretty much "told" to get a Chrysler product (she was a new hire). They've had incidents of other brands being "bothered" on the lot.
 
I just have to say I'm glad I didn't go by what JD Powers' survey said when I bought my Tracker. Would it make a difference to me in my decision? No, I'd have still bought this boat. As my first brand new boat purchase, I could not find another comparably equipped boat, as wide,as equipped, and with as much interior space for kids/gear/dog, for anywhere near the price. If we all used JD Powers as the "bible", we'd all drive the same car/boat/and whatever else they rank.

If JD Powers ever wants to survey me, I'd be happy to tell them that after 2 full seasons with this boat, that I'm extremely happy with it.



Do the JDPowers results send a wake up call to some companies? Probably. Does every boat Tracker/Nitro sells have no problems? Of course not. No one makes a perfect product every time. (Although I'll admit Lund and Ranger sure try hard.) I think the one thing that survey should do is wake up Tracker in the customer service area. If someone does have a problem, they shouldn't have to go through what they do to get it resolved, as we've seen some here on the site go through. Anyhow, JDPowers can give out whatever cute little trophy things they give out every year to whoever they give them to every year, and next time I buy another new boat I'll just go ahead and buy another Tracker anyway. #1 selling brand how many years in a row? Surely there must be SOME repeat customers there! :) egMike
 
I only found a small blurb on bass fan. This link goes directly the JD Powers web-site. You'll see that on a scale of 1 to 5, Nitro didn't score higher than 2 on ANYTHING.



I would never expect Nitro to score the best, but I feel they are better than a 2 in many catagories. A two is just harsh.



Regardless of what the consumers and the rest of us think of the rating, it's up to Tracker/Nitro to decide what THEY want to do about it. I think this is a very positive thing for all of us. Nitro is officially "under the public eye" and the whole world is watching.



The ball is now in their court. What are they going to do?
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/jdpa_ratings/BoatRatings.jsp
 
OK,

You know, I hang out some at BBC. They are getting sponsors like crazy there. I say good for them. I am more then ignorant on the web hosting deal, but I do know that it costs money to run this shindig (THANKS RICH). I am also pretty sure that it has been talked about why Tracker, Nitro, BPS, or even individual BPS stores have not sponsored this site, or at least publicly show that they look at this site. Do they even intervene from THEM looking at this site?

Lets take Guest for starters. They look and they sponsor.



OK guys and gals, enlighten me.



Carlos
 
Carlos -



This has come up in my conversations with Rich a couple of times..... He doesn't want sponsorship from Tracker Corporate because he wants the site to remain as impartial as possible. Two Thumbs Up for Rich!



Now..... Where Dealers are concerned..... I simply can't understand why some haven't jumped on the band wagon.... The cost is SO LOW.....



And, there are others here who peddle their wares constantly in their posts..... I'd like to see some of them purchase banners.....



me!
 
Hi Carlos!



Click on my member file and rest assured BPS and Tracker Marine are well informed, good and bad, about this site. It has been more beneficial than I can possibly describe. For numerous reasons, especially Rich Stern's wish, they are not and most likely will not be an advertised sponsor of this site. There are a multitude of websites influenced by advertisers, some spoken of here regularly. (Just an FYI: Many other sites that tote the BPS logo as a "sponsor" are being provided a complimentary trademarked link to the main BPS site.) Additionally, The Marine Group dealerships have a national advertising policy that sets their dealership's advertising. (Franchised dealers set their own advertising in addition to the national program.) I hope this helps answer some of your and Scott's questions.



This is the best, most unbiased site I frequent! Although I do not post very often, I make a point of checking in almost daily. Believe me when I say scores of others do the same. IMHO
 
Morning Dan,

Thanks for the information. I guess silent partner comes to mind and this helps me in the understanding of site sponsorship. I am in agreement of the site staying indie and having that "flavor".

Dan, thanks for the information and I do appreciate the clearing of my fog :)



Carlos
 
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