Ethanol Part 2

[Jim B]

I thought i would start another discussion abotu the lovely ethanol crap we have to deal with in our boats and share a story about it with you all as a warning of what can happen with this stuff, please learn from my mistake .



In a nutshell i screwed up bigtime last season when i stored my boat. When i brought it to the dealer to have it winterized and wrapped i totally forgot to stuff the tank with fuel on the ride over to the delaer. From what i have read with the ethanol its best to drain the tank or fill it full to minimize condensation. Well i didnt and when i cut the wrap off yesterday guess what i saw in the tank? If you guesed a lot of water and phase seperated fuel you would be correct. When i first got my boat i marked my tank in 5 gallon increments as i filled it up for the first time(i never trust the gauge in the boat) and when i put it away i remember there being a little better then 5 gallons in there. Yesterday i had 10 gallons of stuff in there so it absorbed a bunch of water for sure. I decided on the spot that i was going to pump it out and the first couple gallons were mostly water and then i started getting into the the fuel itself. It took me a while to get it drained and i sucked out every last drop with my wet dry vac and a homemade extenter tool made from PVC and duct tape.



Needless to say i wasnt real happy that i had to do that but i can only blame myself for not taking the proper precautions last fall. Im glad i noticed and didnt try to run my motor on what was in there. That would have been a disaster i think.





On another note, Rob thanks for mentioning that Startron stuff in the last ethanol post. I had a sample bottle i got last year and i never ran it. I have never really been happy with the way my truck has run since they put that ethanol stuff in 100% in my area so i thought i would give it a shot in the truck. It started running better almost instantly. I did my own little un-scientific test and i ran it for two tanks, ran the second tank down almost dry and then ran without it on the next fillup. With the startron stuff it ran better(crisper and sounds better) for sure and without it it was back to the way its been running for the last 4 years. I also noticed a little better fuel milage with the startron in there. I dont know how or what that additive is doing but it appears to work. There is a noticible difference in the way my truck runs with it vs without. I can hear it and i can feel it. I plan to run it this season in the boat and see how it does. I had been running a coctail of green stabil and quickleen, i think im goign to change it to startron and quickleen and see how it does.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Glad you caught the crud before you ran your outboard. That likely would have blown it. And now you're seeing why I run the Startron stuff in every combustion engine I have. Maybe they'll sponsor me????

 

[John W2]

The boat dealer that I use in Mass strongly recommends emptying the fuel tank as much as possible and treating what is left with a fuel stabilizer. I have always stored my boats with a full tank but tried their method this year. It makes sense to me, I would rather treat a few gallons of gas then try to treat and keep 40 gallons over the Winter. We'll see.:unsure:

 

[joseph currier]

either completly full of completely empty. period.

not as much as you can and treating the rest, if any is left regardless of treatment

with that much oxygen availble it is just a matter of time before a small amount of fuel

in a large container will phase seperate.

but if you fill the container completely there is not enough air availble to the fuel for it to become comprimised.

john the bad news is the fuel in your tank is defanitly junk. the good news is you haven't pumped it into your motor. and you can still completely empty your tank.



good luck

 

[Jim B]

John,

What dealer do you use? Bob the service manager over at USA Marine told me that the best thing to do is either drain it or fill it. The last couple years i have filled it. Thats the same as what is on Merc's website.



I firmly believe that the lack of a full tank and the ethanol fuel caused the water/alcohol mix to drop out of the fuel, aka phase seperation. From the things i have read this fuel has a shelf life of ~3 months and cold weather makes the phase seperation issue even worse. So i guess the lesson is dont even attempt to store the stuff. Next year im going to drain the tank in the fall and be done with it.





Here is the link from Merc

"Follow the instructions for normal storage preparation found in the Operation, Maintenance & Warranty manual. When preparing to store a boat for extended periods of two months or more, it is best to completely remove all fuel from the tank. If it is difficult or not possible to remove the fuel, maintaining a full tank of fuel with a fuel stabilizer added to provide fuel stability and corrosion protection is recommended"

 

[John W2]

Jim, I use South Attleboro Marine. Like USA Marine they have been around for along time and I trust them. Although they are not a bass boat dealer they are a Mercury dealer. I have bought 2 boats from Marine USA, one new and recently a 2004 NX882. I have used South Attleboro Marine for service on both, they are convenient to where I live but again I trust them. It looks like I'll be draining the rest of the fuel from my tank.

 

[Greg Duggan]

JimB

I have always stored my combustion engine equip completely empty. Dover Marine in NH, told me from day 1 to empty my tank for the long winter nap that we forced to take here in the N East. I usually treat my fuel for the last few trips of the season, pump the remaining fuel out of the boat and then run it threw my snow mobiles.

i am going to be reversing that process in the next few weeks. Treated all 4 sleds and ran our last snowmobile trip 2 weeks ago. All remanning fuel will now be pumped back into the boat.



Bottom line, never leave fuel in any thing. Ethanal fuel will break down over time even if it is treated. why take the chance on 50gallons of treated fuel stored for 6 months. it is easier to run it down and siphon it out and use it in your snow blower or truck than take the chance of what happened to you last season.



Question, why did Marine USA wrap your boat if you had 1/2 tank of fuel..... They should have called and alerted you of the risk of leaving your tank 1/2 full. i would be very unhappy with my mechanic if it were me.



then again you know i like to take a shot at them when i can.



GregD





P.s.

i got some Lowrance stories to share with you. i know what your gonna tell me. but i had to play the game and stay with them.

 

[Jim B]

Lol Greg. They did tell me and they taped a flap where i could open it up to fill it and i forgot to do it. I was in a hurry on the way home and once i parked it i never moved it again. With all of the stuff going on in my personal life and work being nuts it slipped my mind twice.



I wont let it happen again for sure.

 

[Bobcat University]

So do you think it's a good idea for me to grab some Star Tron and treat my gas if I stored my boat last year with only about 1/2 - 1/4 tank of gas? I've been reading about the Star Tron product but haven't had the opportunity to speak to anyone about it.

 

[Jim B]

bobcat, if the gas went bad and seperated there is no treatment that will fix it. The only fix is to drain the fuel from the tank.



If it was my boat and i was unsure of the fuel's quality i would drain it.

 

[Bobcat University]

Thanks Jim B.

 

[Greg Duggan]

Ethanol is a bad product period. Anyone who uses Ethanl based gasoline in recreational equipment should be very carefull on how long they let the fuel sit. There is a prominant phase seperation (ETHANAL EVAPORATION)that will occure over time. The other big mistake to careful of, is to never add dry gas to your equipment. The combination of iso propalyne and ethanal is explosive. meaning it can cause extensive damage in the cylinder due to the mixture.

As a practice, i never fill my boats fuel cell. the amount of time it would take me to burn 40 gallons of fuel in my local lakes is was to long to keep that gas in my boat. I typicaly add fuel on every trip out and base the amount of gas on what lake i am fishing and what i have in store for the day.

My snowmobiles only hold 12 gallons of fuel. i treat them with every fill and typicaly burn the hole tank on each trip. I have met many people who have blown up sleds or outboard motor issues related to fuel gone bad.

my in-laws own a gas station and have beat this practice into my head, so far i have been one of the lucky ones that have not had any problems related to fuel.

 

[Berry Lindley]

I run my gas down and treat what little is in there. My boat is garaged so it probably helps. I do tend to put ethanol free in, but now and then I end up with some E-10 in there. Like most of you I hate the stuff, and they soon will be pushing for E-15.

 

[Jim B]

looks liek the house voted to block the e15 stuff, lets hope the senate will follow and our idiot president doesnt veto the bill....




http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/02/28/house-vote-blocks-gas-with-e15-ethanol-will-senate-follow/

 

[Jim B]

The other big mistake to careful of, is to never add dry gas to your equipment. The combination of iso propalyne and ethanal is explosive. meaning it can cause extensive damage in the cylinder due to the mixture.

I find it funny that so many guys thing that sea foam is the end all be all to treat ethanol fuel. Sea foam is like 20% IPA alcohol.

 

[joseph currier]

jim b,

it's amazing how littel homework us boaters are willing to do on our own.

seems everyone just wants the easy answer.

the scince behind ethanol in fuel is flawed just as flawed as the economics of the whole silly thing.

do you know it takes more energy (i.e. fuel)to farm, harvest, mill, and then process corn into

a fuel than we can reep from it by about half agin as much? not to mention the damage the whole concept has already caused (ask the one time wealthy boat company bertrum)oops thats right this concept cost them billions and bankrupt them.

our goverment and it's pepole have been sold a bill of goods when the tree huggers

and the wanabe envriomentalist get a clue the waist exposed on this silly idea will be bigger than anything berrnie nadoff did.

think about that.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Joe,



It's called spending a dollar to save a penny!!:lol::lol: Government operations at their best!!



TOXIC

 

[ND Bass]

I have a hammer and toilet seat for sale if anyone needs one.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

ND,



NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use my name in the same sentence as "toilet seat" You just gave the MVM heart failure because in the cottage when Hammer and toilet seat are in the same sentence, the house clears out!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:Then it's usually followed by:



Dude that is wrong on so many levels.

You need to see a doctor.

Something crawled up in you and died.

Now I know why bears crap in the woods.

I have no nose hairs left.



and finally from Teri.......



Who used all of the GD toilet paper?!?!?!





TOXIC

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

LMAO :lol: