Cool Idea - Tourney's for 150hp or less

[TrepMan]

Just saw this on a local board, i won't be fishing as I can't get a check in a $25 local tourney, so I know i'm not ready for a $150 entry fee tourney!! LOL But a great idea!
http://www.americanbassanglers.com/newsdetail.php?news_id=958

 

[TritonGlenn]

I wrote, erased, wrote, erased, etc... about 4 times. It all comes out sounding pretty harsh, and it's too close to Christmas to sound like a grinch. :lol:



I'll just say, "I'm opposed to the idea", and leave it at that.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[john horn]

I think it is a good idea. Enter a tourney with a small boat and you get looked at like you can't fish. Money and speed don't make good fishermen, although they do look good.

 

[TritonGlenn]

john,

My point exactly.

Money and speed don't make good fishermen

Then why would people with less money or slower boats need their own tournament trail? Who cares what people think? It's what you bring in at weigh in time that counts. Speed might get you to the hole faster, but if you can't catch the fish, what good is it?



I knew two older gents in VA/NC that could whip up on the "big boys" anyday... and they didnt' care what other people drove. All they cared about was pocketing those checks at the end of the tournament. Their boat was built sometime in the late 70's / early 80's, and was one of the slowest ones out there. Didn't matter.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Mini]

we used to have a team trail that had two divisions. Silver (90 and under) and Gold (over 90). The teams were made up of teams where one guy had the tin and another had the glass. it was good for boat sales all around!

 

[Randy Walls]

On lakes the size of which you may fish (large) I can see the disadvantages of a slower boat. Yes, it is not the boat that catches the fish and I do subscibe to that theory my self. In fact I fish from a TV-18 with a 115 now and do get funny looks some time. Most of the locals that know me and my partner don't laugh any more. They know they are usually fishing for second place! It is nice for those with smaller boats/slower boats to know they will have an even playing field as far as equipment goes. Mostly psychlogical for the smaller boat oweners although I have had to change some tactics early in the day as I do get passed quite often!



Kids make fun of my sons basketball team because we have the plainest uniforms you can get. The kids learned early on, looks don't win games! We won the national title last year in Chicago. Kids know the ugly black and white uniforms now, those kids can play!!!!



Randy!

 

[john horn]

With boat speeds increasing every year I think it will not be long before there is a bad accident in a major pro tournament. Then I would think that some type of speed limits would be set. Just my 2 cents.

 

[TritonGlenn]

john,

Look at the amounts of accidents that happen at slower speeds v/s higher speeds. There are just as many idiots behind the wheel of a smaller, slower boat as there are behind the wheel of a bigger, faster boat. I've seen my share of each.



I disagree with speed limits being set, and only for the reason that it doesn't accomplish what is needed. What good are speed limits if the boaters that drive the speed limit are doing it with a beer in one hand, no life jacket on, while crossing in front of someone who has the right-of-way by all regulations? Just because they are doing the speed limit doesn't make them any less dangerous on the water - it just means they are doing it slower. The only way I would agree with speed limits is if mandatory boater education, as well as a drivers license for boats and law enforcement officials designated at every body of water was included. I know (from experience, here and elsewhere) that opinion is not very welcome with a lot of people, and that's fine. We can have different opinions and still get along.



My reasoning is this - what is so different about a boat v/s an automobile? It's a form of transportation, and if in an accident, you can be killed just as quickly. In fact, there are more ways to die in a boat. In a car, you get hit - you can die from the impact. In a boat, you get hit - you can die from the impact... or you can drown too. There are rules and regulations set forth in order for people to operate them properly. However, there is a severe lack of enforcement and penalties for people who break those rules. Why? Because most states don't have enough personnel designated to enforce those rules. In addition, most people don't know the rules. Stop anyone at the ramp and ask them questions regarding bouys, right of way, etc... I bet most don't know them. Why should it be any different than driving a car? Stay on the correct side of the bouys, don't drink and drive, wear the required safety equipment, etc...



But no. Anyone can buy a boat and throw it on the water, with absolutely no knowledge of how to operate it properly and safely. And unfortunately, there probably won't be anyone to teach them, and the warden will not be around to see them violating every rule.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[TOMMY RICH]

When their HP surpasses their IQ...it's time to slow down:lol:

 

[TritonGlenn]

Yep. Especially those guys running 9.9's. :lol::lol::lol:

All the best,

Glenn

 

[Dan J.]

I agree with Glenn. "Run what-ya brung!" is the majority of T's around here. What's strapped to the transom affects my fishing almost nil. It may change priority on a "milk run" and will reduce the actual fishing time overall when compared to a faster rig, but many, many great fisherman have taken large checks home while towing their "underpowered" rig past V6 commpetitors, as well as the accompanying gas stations. I don't think we need any "handicapping" of T's due to the amount spent (more or less ) on a rig. IMHO

 

[TrepMan]

Interesting views as always from this site. Having taking my 17ft Nitro in a few tourneys the last few years, one was a popular Monday night here in the Summer which usually brings 50-60 boats, and we were in the first flight, a little intimidating lining up with 20+ft 225+HP boats, had to let them blast off and follow a bit behind the wakes, we didn't get a check but placed mid-pack out of 60 boats so not bad. What I will say is in a limited timed tournament it does level the playing field a bit as the distance you can travel / run is less due to the top speeds. SO yes, some of it would be phychological for us smaller boat guys, and some would be practical, but thought it was a cool idea.



Like I said for Eli and I, or Dan and I, we donate a few times a year to the local $20-30 pot tourneys for fun and challenge, but with the cost of boats and the economy, I see more folks getting into/staying in the smaller boats, so a neat concept.



The free market will tell the ABA how this works out next year, are there enough guys in that HP/size range that want to try the next step in tourney fishing or not.

 

[john horn]

Glenn, I agree with everything you are saying. BUT if a HP limit was set by the major tourney hosts those speeds would not be needed. I see no reason why any tournament fishermen needs to travel @ 90 mph. I would not want to be a co-angler in a unknow boat hoping the owner can drive. If everyone was at the same HP it would not matter if you where going 30 or 100mph the feild is equal. A speed limit can never be enforced.I fish small lakes and almost never tournament fish so it makes no difference to me.

 

[Dan J.]

For years we fished the Bassmaster Trail with a 150HP limit. Every T had 300 fishermen practicing on a lake, then compressed into 150 rigs, maxed at 150HP. The shorter lighter rigs went faster, the larger heavier rigs went slower. It made little to no impact on the T's and with technology increasing and sponsored equipment wanting recognition, the HP was increased. Rig size increased overall with the accompanying HP, yet the speeds remained relatively similar across the board. If you're planning a tourney day and covering a LOT of miles, you tend to drive economically. The last place you ever want to be on a T is at a gas dock refuelling due to a lack of planning.



As far as equalling the field; if everybody has opportunity to purchase and run what they brung, why should someone be penalized for another person's choice to save money, drive slower, etc....??? BASS is now up to 250HP rating, but I expect that to change with the technology and the improvement in outboards hitting the market. If a fella feels that the T is too fast or unsafe then I would recomend they not enter, not try and invoke their choices on everyone else. That's happening enough already.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I really don't have a nickel in this dime cuz I don't tourny fish but, would think that it shouldn't matter what you have 300 horses or 3..just a cents worth.

 

[Mini]

I forgot to mention some of the names that would fish that trail....it was called Tri-State (Michigan, Indiana, Ohio). They fished some BIG water too. Its all in the planning.



Mark Zona, Chip Harrison, Greg Mangus, Art Furguson, Scott Dobson, Kevin Long, Kim Stricker, Chuck Economou, Kevin VanDam, Randy VanDam, Koby Kreiger, Kyle Greene, etc....



All of those guys had no problem running in a tin rig....why should you? The boat doesnt catch the fish....

 

[Randy Walls]

I don't think the idea here is to penalize the high dollar / high horse power guys. It is more to get more to fish. I can't tell you how many guys won't fish a tourney cause they "feel" they can't compete with the "big" boys. I know it is a mistake but to give someone a chance is only fair. Besides the more that fish, the more the tournament circuit makes! You don't go to a resaturant and find and there is only steak at it is only one size available. Giveing people a choice is a good thing.



People like the old days of Indiana basketball where everyone played everyone for one state champion (Hoosiers). Believe me, in todays society, it is much better to let people compete on their own scale. I don't think you would have too much of an argument if the large boats were in "everyone's" range.



Good points though, by everyone!



Randy!

 

[Mini]

I also forgot to mention that Steve Kennedy started fishing the FLW tour in 1998 in a 17 foot tracker with a 90hp motor.....I camped next to him @ Okeechobee.

 

[TritonGlenn]

If everyone was at the same HP it would not matter if you where going 30 or 100mph the feild is equal.

So should we have tournaments for 10 hp and below, 10-25 hp, 25-50hp, etc...??? If you start making up tournament circuits so that everyone can compete in their "own bracket", do you know what you end up with? Thousands of little bitty, no payout tournaments because only 10 anglers are fishing in each.

Besides the more that fish, the more the tournament circuit makes! You don't go to a resaturant and find and there is only steak at it is only one size available. Giveing people a choice is a good thing.

Nope. Not true at all. Proof - check the payouts. It's based on a "full field" in most of the tournaments. So if you start cutting a 20% piece out of a large tournament field that normally had 100 boats, you now have 80 boats competing. Make a couple of those niche markets, and what do you have? You have 20 boats in this tournament, 20 in this one, 20 in this one, and maybe 40 in the original. What happens to the payouts? They go down in the big tournament, because you don't have a full field anymore, and the little tournaments aren't paying out enough to cover your gas and hotel bill. So who is winning in that situation? Nobody.



Yeah, maybe Joe-Bubba-Jack who can't compete with the "big boys" as he calls them, is now making a little check to cover his gas, oil, and hotel bill. But if he had stayed with the "big-boys" and actually learned to outfish them, instead of being intimidated by someone elses "boat size" (wow, this conversation seems to happen a lot when talking about guys doesn't it? :lol: ), maybe he would have eventually won a LARGE payout. But he will never know, because he won't ever try.

Believe me, in todays society, it is much better to let people compete on their own scale.

My apologies, but I'll have to disagree there too. Our society has been slowly going downhill BECAUSE we let people just slide by. I sincerely think it's time that society (yes, me included) pulls themselves up by the bootstraps, takes a kick in the butt, and actually starts TRYING for a change. There shouldn't be any room for mediocracy. Like Yoda says - No! There is no try. Do. Or do not. :lol::lol::lol::lol:



I sincerely hope that my comments are not offending anyone, as I'm doing my best to relay my thoughts and feelings on this subject without stepping on toes. I realize that not everyone will agree. No matter if you agree or not, I sincerely wish you all a very Merry Christmas (or Hanukkah for my Jewish brethren here), and hope you all get what you want for presents. To those who agree with me, I hope you all get nice shiny new fishing rods. For those that don't, well... there's always coal. :lol::lol::lol:



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Randy Walls]

I agree Glenn. I don't think it will take away from the big tourney, just adds more for more. I personally see nothing wrong with it! We actually have a few 90 and under tournament circuits around here! I just know so many that won't fish in a larger tourney and it opens another market! Kind of like; Press one for English, Press two for ...... OOPS did I open that can again!!!



Randy!

 

[eric nichols]

I couldn't agree more, Glenn. Boats should be treated as any other mode of transportation, maybe even more cautious because they have no brakes. Here in WV kids under 15 have to take hunter and gun safety course before they get a hunting permit and people now have to take a motorcycle skills test to ride after dark or take a passenger. I dont have a monster HP motor because I dont need one. But limiting the tourneys to equal the playing field is wrong. To me that would be like telling an NBA team they cant have more than 1 player over 6'6" because its not fair to other teams with smaller players. If you can afford it, buy it.



Eric

 

[TritonGlenn]

Yet another thought:



My previous rig was a Cajun 18 footer with a 150. Loaded out, I could touch 65. It ate gas like a largemouth eats Senko's. I got pounded by rough water at times. The Potomac killed me sometimes.



I moved to a 20 foot boat because I wanted more room and a better rough water ride. I also wanted an Optimax because I was tired of feeding 6 carbureters. Going to a 150 in that rig would have been like pushing a barge with a trolling motor, so of course, I got the right sized engine for it - 225.



Maxed out, light load, giving it all it has - I have reached 74.9mph on the GPS. Never could break the 75mph mark. BUT - loaded down with the tackle I like to carry, full tanks of gas, tournament partner with all their gear, etc... I top out around 68 most of the time. Sometimes I touch 69, but most of the time it's around 68.



So because my new boat is 3mph faster than my older boat, I shouldn't be allowed to fish a certain tournament trail???



Point is - not every longer boat with a bigger engine is much faster than a smaller rig with a lesser engine. In fact, I know of a few makes with 150's that absolutely smoke my 20 foot rig - even when I have it rigged to run to that 74.9mph mark.



Take for example the Allison XB 2002 with a Mercury Optimax 150 - it set a speed record of 92+ mph a few years back. Now that was a racing setup, but most Allison's will smoke my Triton with a smaller engine out back. Same for Bullet and some other makes.



So who is getting penalized here? In the example I listed above, it would be the outboard owners with engine sized higher than 150.



So what do we do then? Check financial status prior to letting them enter? Put a limit on boat value too? Then what? Only let them fish with Zebco spincast combo's? :lol:



You see, when you start putting limits on something to make it "fair" for a certain group, what are you really doing? You are cutting out other groups as well. What kind of fit would you see people throwing if they said "All further BASS and FLW events at all levels of competition require a MINIMUM 250 hp engine"? Yeah, that wouldn't be fair, would it? It would alienate anyone who didn't have that setup. This is the same thing the "150 and below" circuit does in my eyes.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Andy Rose]

I may not have much of an opinion on the subject as I do not fish tournaments, and the lakes I fish are relatively small in comparison to some of the lakes out east. However here is my 2 cents. I can see both sides to the story, entering into a smaller engine class defiantly would be less intimidating for a newcomer such as myself, simply knowing that most of the people in tournament would be non professional. However, to be completely honest, in all the years I have been recreational fishing, I cant say that having more or less engine is a significant advantage or disadvantage. I have fished 20 years with my dad in his 90 hp Starcraft, and can say that we never really opened it up. I can see how it would help if you were on a much larger lake where you could have the opportunity to fish multiple sites on the lake, but if you plan your fishing correctly you shouldn't be motoring across the lake constantly anyway. Last, like what was mentioned by Glenn, having a hp cutoff doesn't mean that your boat is not outclassed, a light 17 foot boat with a 150 e-tec will almost always beat a 20 footer with a 200 on the back. But like I said I dont have much of a say in the matter as the lakes around here are about 9500 acres and it doesn't take long to cross even with a 115.

 

[Randy Walls]

Glenn don't lose sight here that there is no penalty for the "big guys" as their circuits are still in effect! It is just a bonus for the "little guys". We could do a pretty good "for and against" benefits list here. Big boats good for bigger (rough) water, faster than a 90 horse boat, etc, Smaller boats can go places larger boats can't, it is all they can or want to afford etc..... As has been said, it is everyone's opinion. I made the choice to fish from a TV-18 and did get rid of the much larger and faster 19 footer. I still win as much or more as I get better (or is it luck:wacko. I love the boat and many have changed over to a smaller boat, specially when gas was $4 a gallon. An most of my lakes they are small. Average about 500-700 acres. Most boats barly get on plane before coming off to fish. So what it came down to, there was a need/want and some one filled it! I am sure there was not disrespect to the big motor guys!



As it is, I won't have mine out again for at least 3+ months so any boat is faster than mine right now and anyone fishing is outfishing me!



Randy!

 

[john horn]

MY point is was not to add or cut classes. I think under 150 tourneys would help the beginners. My point was that I don't think the big time pros need to travel 90+mph to fish. Not because the boats are expensive or to keep smaller boats out, but for safety. Driving a boat at 90+ is more dangerious then driving a car at 90+. I know many drive their vehicles at high speeds but believe most do not, so why drive a boat and put yourself in a dangerious spot. There are many small clubs where beginners can fish, if you have a small boat and are not comfortable stay away from the big tourneys. What I see happen is many new boaters see KVD on TV going 90+ in a Z9 then buy one without the experience needed to drive it. I think in the next couple of years a well know pro will get hurt in a high speed boating accident and this debate will state over.

 

[TrepMan]

Randy - Just for you, caught today out of 115hp Nitro!!! LOL 55 degrees and Sun, going out again after lunch tomorrow!!

 

[Randy Walls]

Nice Trep. I just finished shoveling snow!:angry:



Randy

 

[Michael Meier]

Wow! Lots of strong opinions being exressed on this HP TX deal.



Will it dilute the already slim turnouts for the open events with no HP restrictions?

*Maybe.. I would guess the guys that already take checks out of a 17' with a 150 would fish the HP restricted event Sat and come over and fish the unrestricted event on Sun!! The boat/motor doesn't make the fisherman...



As far as the speed issue with the upper end rigs, it's an advantage as far as time to fish vs time to get to fish. No one has ever caught a fish at 80 MPH? Lots of 10 HP restricted waters in PA they hold TX's on. Most of these guys that fish these also have a 19-21 foot rig at home for Erie. The boat/motor doesn't make the fisherman...



My 2 cents is the 150 HP events may/may not be a good idea depending on who you are and what your confidence level is in your fishing abilities. We all buy the same over-priced tackle, but where do you throw it, when do you throw it, and how do you throw it is the qustion.

Time to chunk those decoys out of the jon boat and put my flasher in!!:lol::lol::lol: