A Funny Thing Happened on The Way To The Lure

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

My home lake is is the middle of "Turning Over" and the normally clean and clear looks like diluted baby poop. My partner and I go out on a locating mission cause I have Clients this weekend wanting to pre-fish a tourney. I can't catch squat. My partner hooks up a couple of times on a blue and chrome crank so I said "Gimme One"!! I tie on and as is always the case when I fish with someone else's gear, I birdnest and snap it off. No problem I thought, so I start for the crank floating in the water. About 10 feet away there is a massive swirl and this big bucketmouth sucks down my free floating crank. I told my partner just wait, he'll be jumping in about 30 seconds trying to throw that crank out and sure enough he does a 1 1/2 gainer abot 30 feet from the boat and I see this blue cas in hs mouth. Now for my real question, what and where do you fish during the turnover?



TOXIC

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Turnover already Tox? And you're in the south! Man, we don't get it here until about November. But then again, our lake is BIG and deep and the air has to get below 50 steady to turn it. During turnover.....I hunt! Sorry, no better way to address it. Fishing will be horrible at worst, slow at best. But I usually fish deep and slow. I want to learn jigging spoons, but again am usually busy in the woods. Let me know what you discover.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Toxic,



Recently, I went through a short period when my reel (Abu Garcia) was snapping off the line about one cast out of 10. I later found that it was a sharp edge on the spool itself.



Anyway, several times I had to hand retrieve either a crank, fluke or c-rig. All the while, I'm praying that ol' bucketmouth doesn't come up and swallow it while I'm just trying to bring in all the line and the lure.



Did he 'throw' the lure, and were you able to get it back?



Tex

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

No dangit he didn't it was an expensive crank also. Just like the Pike up north eh Rob!? Those Pike steal more topwaters than I can count. And they do the jump also. Rob, we hooked up on some deep diving cranks (not like my floater), I got bit on a tube but nothing great. I've got places where I know there's fish I just hate to experiment with clients (even though these guys are pre-fishing a tourney)



TOXIC

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Toxic, when I guide other tourney anglers the agreement before hand is no prime water, your boat, full price. Take it or leave it. They usually take it. If they're nice, I'll usually give them one spot to at least get a limit. See my situation is unique in that I also fish tourneys and don't want to come back to a honey hole to find them on it. But as a guide you still face the same problem. You don't want to come back to prime water next spring with paying customers to find those guys parked out there. Most of my clients only come once a year, or twice max, don't know their way around the lake, and will never come up without booking me. So I take them to the good water, catch, photo, and release and they come back next year. I learned real fast in the 2nd B.A.S.S. tourney up here not to give pros or other potential competitors my water as it often produces winning bags, and then gets exploited with absolutely no benefit to me, rather a disadvantage. The tourney leaves, the guy goes home, but everybody and their grandmother with a boat that followed the guy or read where he was hits my water. No more!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I understand Rob but you see, I don't fish tourneys and to me a paying customer is a paying customer and he/she deserves my best effort to get them on fish. You and I both know putting them on the fish, does not put them in the livewell. You can go out there all day long, throw the wrong bait and zero out. Even if what I'm throwing today just cream's em', there's a high probability it won't tomorrow. I've gotten a lot of business from guy's still tryin to figure it out. Patterns, fronts, movement, LAKE TURNING OVER, etc., all play a part. Have you ever been concerned that your tourney fishing and guiding are a conflict? How can you best serve your client if you always "hold back"? If I were you, I would just never book tourney pre fishers because of the conflict. How many would still book if you told them that you wouldn't take them to the good spots upfront?



TOXIC

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Sorry Rob, I re-read and see that you do tell them upfront "no prime water" Why then would they book? they gotta know all the rest.



TOXIC

 

[Rob LaMoy]

They usually ALL do. That's was the funny thing. I tried to discourage them. I don't find it a conflict if I'm upfront right from the beginning. Don't get me wrong, I take them to good water, but usually not my best water. I have a few "spots" that I keep just for me and some close friends for tourneys. This lake is big enough that I can do that. With most paying customers, they get every penny's worth and then some. For the most part, they're overly happy catching 2-3 lbers all day. Throw in the occassional 4 lber and they're stoked. I leave my few spots that will produce steady 4's and a few 5's alone. If I don't have a tourney for say a month or more, and there is no threat, then yes, I do take them there. A client that ties into a 5+ smallie leaves a good tip. Ask Buzz or Bob or the guys who have looked at my photos, my clients catch LOTS of NICE fish. I give it my all when they pay! But the tourney guys a lot of time want to milk your every spot. I give them patterns and baits. If they're good enough to tourney anglers, then they should be able to put the rest together themselves! Just my .02. You definately have to come up next year and we'll hit the water! Shoot for May. But let me know soon. I am already getting calls booking it. I got 2 the other night while everyone was at the house. If I didn't put them on great water, they wouldn't keep coming back. Actually, now that I think about it, every time guys from the board come over for dinner I get bookings! At the rally, Mickey Bruce re-booked me, and somebody else. Bob came over and I booked 3 trips. This weekend while at the BBQ, I booked 2 more. BBQ anyone?????LOL

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

That's great, maybe there's no conflict, just seems strange to me. Our bookings have been terrible!! Dog hot summer, drought, tight economy, etc., have tightened it up around these parts. Hey I gotta idea......Everybody head over to my house for a BBQ!!



TOXIC

 

[Jon Puhalski]

Toxic, I've had fair succes during the turn over hitting shallow, thick cover. What Rob said about hunting is oh so true though. Those fish just don't want to be bothered during that time.



As for guiding clients, my lakes are generally small, under 1000 acres. I don't have a problem taking tourney anglers to my best spots, though I also fish tournaments. On these smaller lakes, there are very few secrets. Plus, I have enough faith in my own abilities that even if they are on a spot, I'll just have to go find fish elswhere till they leave. I know they didn't catch them all. Of course I'm dealing primarily with largemouth, and i know those smallies love to school up, whereas the largemouth seem to be moving in and out. When ones gone from a prime spot, it doesn't take to long for another to take his place.

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Tox,

You sure that was not a launched lure



Carlos

 

[Bob G.]

Rob,



Let's do a winter BBQ after hunting season. Venison and grouse can be the main courses. Maybe if we eat enough, you'll book a bunch of trips for next year!!



Bob G.

 

[Adam Murray]

Sure it's turnover?? Saw this debate somewhere else about this time last year. Often, fall winds and rain cloud the waters giving the appearance of a turnover. Takes a whole lotta cold to re-stratify a lake.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Toxic's just confused,..it's actually those 15lb supertoads fanning beds!!!!..........he thinks the cloudy water was caused by the fall turnover, when in actuality, there's a late spawn goin' on in his private little lake where 10-15lb mega-toads live hassle free and rarely ever see a lure....those fish think his little pond boat is just a turtle!! You've got it made Toxic....now get out there and

make us proud!!! LOL

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Adam, yeah, that was my first thought and I voiced it to my partner who has been guiding for 15 years on this lake. He assured me it was turnover. None of the feeder creeks/streams/rivers have enough flow to dredge up the crap we saw floating. You could tell it was bottom sludge. The lake is fairly shallow in this area and like I said in earlier posts it has been dog hot, water temp in the 80's so a little weather in the 60's with some cool rain might just do it.



Carlos, don't forget my friend, YOU launched the box of cranks, I launch equipment!! Got the pics back and I am heading up to the scanner today. Now we'll hear the "rest of the story". As Paul Harvey would say.



Jon, I agree 150% with your attitude and I also was a "small water" fisherman, even to the point that I use a PVC boat with only a trolling motor. I can pattern a lake under 1000 acres in a second, but my partner wanted me back guiding on big water (I know that's relative Rob, my lake has 200 miles of shoreline and Champlain is 200 miles LONG!). Thanks for the perspective.



TOXIC

 

[Rob LaMoy]

112 actually! But who's counting? LOL

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Turnover??????? Come on man......I live in Ohio and are lakes are not close to turnin' over yet.

TEE

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I'm not kidding TEE, look at the post of pics with Carlos and me (nice green color water) and yesterday it was crap brown with BOTTOM debris floating in it at the top (1 1/2 weeks later). Remember, we don't get the temprature swings that you guys do up North. I thoroughly believe my partner. He has written a book on Lake Anna. He knows this lake.



TOXIC

 

[James D.]

i fish a lake here in oklahoma which is only 1100 acres and i seem to notice a distinct change in the water here this time of year. the lake is a shallow lake (max depth 38') which has a creek channel running thru it. as it gets real hot in the summers and the water temp rises there seems to be a small stratification or thermocline. as the weather changes from 70/80 deg. nights to 50 degree nites, it does have an effect as i notice gunk floating up. i think really hot summers in a shallow lake will produce some kind of turnover effect probably quicker here in the south as compared to the north. the thermoclines are not as deep. the lake i fish is pretty stained so it is really hard to tell when the turnover happens. i try to fish the extreme lower end of the lake and also the creeks in the upper end which are shallower and there really is not a turnover.