State of the union

[Rob LaMoy]

Anyone else catch President Bush's state of the union address last night? I got most of it. I think it was good. I don't know that he is the best public speaker but he speaks from the heart and with emotion. George W is more a man of actions than words. My wife cracked up because before the democratic party's following remarks, I told her concept for concept what they would say. Republicans say black, they say white. One says hi, the othe low. What really cracks me up is that they all believe Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, but want to WAIT until danger is eminent? Let me see if I understand this logic....we have been attacked several times by these kind of people, we KNOW they're up to something and defectors have verfied this, they have openly stated they intend to do harm to us, and you want to wait until they walk up and put a gun in your face to decide that maybe we might just want to do something to protect ourselves? I'm sorry, I just for the life of me, CANNOT understand how such stupidity gets elected to office. How do you vote for someone that has dilluted thinking like that? Thank God that the Republicans control the capital and whitehouse now. Why don't we just go lay belly up for they enemy and send them some weapons while we're at it. Normally I don't like to sterotype the democratic party so much as they too have many good agendas I agree with. But lately I find them becoming more and more absurd in their thought process' and rationale.

 

[Bill McElroy]

They HAVE to say the opposite points of view even if they don't believe it themselves...it's their JOB!! LOL If they "agreed" with each other all the time..they wouldn't be adversaries....we need a good mix to keep things interesting.....we don't want to many Rush Limbaugh's and we don't want to many Al Sharpton's...one of each is fine!

ahahahhah

 

[Texas Transplant]

The person that really got me was good ol' Ted Kennedy. He had the absolute gall to suggest that 'until they can produce pictures and actual proof - as Stevenson did during the Cuban conflict - we need to sit back and wait.'



What a pain in the . . . .



I'm always amazed at the attitudes of those that were born with all the best (education, opportunity, MONEY). This goes for those Hollywood noveau rich types also.



Tex

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Rob,



I agree, if Saddam or someone he has financed, or supplied the raw materials to, or harbored, or just helped, manages to release Anthrax, Smallpox, Serin gas, or whatever that stuff they found in London was that has no antidote, its a little late to say "See, I told you so". At which time those opposing the war would say, "We did not have all of the information avaliable to us and would have acted if we had known". Politicians are SO predictable.....



TOXIC

 

[Texas Transplant]

I also have to believe that all those French Underground patriots who were so instrumental in the liberation of France during WWII, are turning over in the graves at the attitudes and policies of the current day French goverment.



Tex

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Limbaugh is my hero! He tells it like it is, and doesn't buy the crap that media and other ignorant people try to sell us. He just says openly what most intelligent people should be thinking. Like some of these frivolous lawsuits these days. People suing McDonalds because they're fat. It's McD's fault you can't keep away from the big mac and fries. How ludicrous. People sue gun manufacturers because someone killed their husband with that brand of gun. I'm sorry, did I again miss something? Did a PERSON pull the trigger? The worst part is, people buy into this crap, but Limbaugh and Galliger keep common sense in the mix as often as possible. I really, really cannot understand the thought process some people have to come up with the conclusions they do that allow to fall into this screwed up belief system. Like the tax analogy someone made here the other day about the 10 guys going to dinner. WHY do the wealthy get a better tax break? Waaaaaaaaa, because they PAY more in taxes and so DESERVE a bigger break. Don't like it, go make more and you can get a better break, but will pay more in taxes. errrrr, durn fever and politics with an aggravated northern republican redneck......BAD mix! LOL

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Don't get me started on France or Germany....Hitler would be proud of those pansies today! Were is he when you need him. Funny how once you liberate a country, in less than a century they forget what it was like and don't want to stop the next Hitler. "well if he isn't in my back yard, I'm not going to worry about it." DUH....HE IS in your back yard. He's in EVERYONE'S backyard!

 

[Bill McElroy]

Well,..God forbid any kind of crapola should be let loose in Hollywood or Boston,........what would the liberals say then??..(other than the fact that it's the republican's fault,...Homeland security didnt do their job!!..LOL) ...Especially after Bush tells them...."Hey,..we wanted to rid the world of this problem years ago,..but we did as YOU asked and we waited for "proof".....Well,..now you have it folks!!...In YOUR bloodstream!!....Can we go kick their arsses NOW,..or do we need MORE proof??".....I think we oughta just send Martin Sheen,..Sheryl Crow, Ted Kennedy, Sean Penn and Alec Baldwin ALL over there for a little chat with Unca Saddam....and what is Baldwin still doing here anyway,...He said he'd leave the country if GWB got elected.....is he still here???? LOL

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Rob,



Just remember that Limbaugh, just like Gallagher is an entertainer. He talks common sense but he is paid to get a rise out of the listeners. Sensationalism, extreemism and controversy get him market share. I like Rush but I always keep in mind that he as an agenda also. O'Rielly is the same way.



TOXIC

 

[Pierre Voisine]

Rob, I know what you're saying but there are a few more factor to consider. Currently only on other country has agreed to stand with the US and attck Irak right away -The british. Is it worth pissing off all of the other countries ?



Also, there is an organization that monitors and polices these BIG dicisions, at least with regrards to the civilized world. The US is a part of that, they would throw all it away if they decided to invade without a thumbs up from the UN. The USA would then be looked upon as a country trying to rule the world which is not a position you want to be in.



I think the administration is pursuing the righ path, which is letting the UN do their job AND putting pressure on them and Irak by actively saying they will invade anytime. Howevre, this can only last so long....



BTW do think the US has completely disarmed ???



Pierre

 

[Mark Gross]

God bless George W.Bush !



There is no room in a democracy for apathetic or delusional beliefs.Saddam Insane is a MONSTER.



My 20 yr old is bitting at the bit to inlist the moment they send in the clean-up crews.I don't want to see him quit school but its his decision in the end.I tried to raise him with the right values and I think I have done that.I am proud of him.And proud he's not one of the Liberal pacifist demonstrating against the very rumor of war because of their own misguided complacency. If he were I'm affraid I would have to disown him.That would be a dishonor to all who have served,to all how have died.





The next time the Nazi's invade France let them call Saddam to come and recue them.There only focus is on there own financial interests. Because they LIKE doing business with the devil !

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Pierre, this has been lasting since the early 90's. The UN is NOT doing their job. You can't see a canister of chemical weapons like you can a nuclear missle. It can be put in the trunk of a car or a suitcase. To expect Cuban missle crisis style photo proof in todays compact, concealed style of warfare is a farce. These other countries are the first ones to cry to the USA for help when some dictator comes knocking on their door. But now that same dictator spits in our face and we're supposed to just sit here and wait???? Sorry, I think not. If 9/11 had happened in downtown Montreal or Ottowa, Canadians would be singing to a different tune. If it had happened in Paris, the French would be chomping at the bit to unleash everything the USA would offer them. But because it was USA that was struck, we're supposed to turn the other cheek and wait for the knife in the back? We're not trying to rule the world, in fact our actions prove the exact opposite. We are trying to ensure freedom for the world. We have been too liberal and idle for too long listening to the peace loving (not to say I don't love peace....WHEN it's possible) UN and liberals. What did it get us? So did we learn from our mistake? Most of us did, but the same people that said wait and see before and we SAW, want us to wait and see again? Where is the logic? The UN monitors and polices like granny does on neighborhood watch. "You stop or I'll beat you with my walker" But when the police (USA) show up with an armed swat team, the criminal is stopped. But everyone thinks it's granny and the neighborhood watch that saved us and will in the future????

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Diplomacy has its place (and I think the US has exausted that option) but c'mon, the UN is a joke!! Nothing more than a bunch of politicians with their own agendas and secret allegiances. GW needs to go back to his original statement and appy it to ALL of the countries that "Claim" to be "Allies" of the US.."You either stand with us, or you stand against us". No more middle of the road politics. Stand and be recognized as an ally or loose all aid, financial support and protection by the USA. End of Story.



TOXIC

 

[bob wateski]

alright, I'll try to stay calm. As you guys know, I can get a little hot under the collar. First off, if you don't like the way Bush is trying to protect this country and our people, tough. I wish people would get over that he didn't win the election. I think he did a great job last night and told everyone the way it is and the way it is going to be. He is going to lay it on the line on the 5th to the U.N. By the way, why do we need any other countries ok to protect ourselves. I to watched the dem. last night and was really ticked off at their attitude, I saw old fatty kennedy sitting there. I don't think he could stand to appllade. I think they do need to pull together more for the people of this country and stop complaining about no money. They should try to live on what most of us make. I can't vote myself a payraise. They can give themselves a 30 or 40% and this year I got a

whole $12.00 raise for the year, ($l.00 a month) on my V.A.

disability. I hope it doesn't break them.



I think Bush did a very good job and if people don't like it, they should move to Iraq and try living under Saddam.

I'll bet there are no volunteers out there.



If Saddam wants Nuks so bad, we should give him some!!!!!!

 

[Texas Transplant]

Okay, stepping onto my soap box . . .



Well, since our dear friends and colleagues in France, have already said they will veto any further efforts to enact military intervention, why bother to ask?



I don't believe that you will see the US asking for any further permission from the UN. I believe that the way it was handled last fall was correct. Give them one FINAL chance to turn over all evidence, and cooperate fully. They basically handed over the same information, and are not fully cooperating.



Remember, Colin Powell is the 'dove' in this administration. He lobbied mightly for the actions that were taken in going to the UN last fall. As everyone can see, he is now done with waiting any longer. What the administration has not said directly, but is becomming very obvious, is that the UN team on the ground is 'very porus' with their information. It appears that Iraq knows full well where they are going to go before they get there.



Should we wait another 12 years? I think not. Been there, done that. Just as we tell ourselves on the water, if something ain't working, you have to change your approach. Waiting for Iraq to disarm and step in line with most of the balance of the free world, is not working.



In short, it's time that somebody gets out a big dose of castor oil, and administers it appropriately.



Stepping down off my soap box now.



Tex

 

[Rob LaMoy]

No, but to hell with them if they think they can be so hypocritical as to want justice and protection for themselves, but different rules for us. Yes, it is this ice, but it SHOULDN'T be. I flat out guarantee you, if North Korea and Iraq start doing what they're capable of, all of those countries you're thinking of will be the first on our doorstep looking for refuge from the bully. It's easy to tell the USA to wait when you don't think there is any real threat to your home country. And I don't mean you Pierre, the overseas turncoats. Good for Tony Blair for standing up like Bush. It's the first smart thing he's done. I didn't think there was any hope for him after insituting nation wide gun bans. And now England is one of the least safest countries to walk after dark in the world. Gee.....that gun control really worked huh? Maybe George W can talk some sense into him about that too. OK, I'm done now, I've made my claims. Just had to vent it a little. People of integrity expect to be believed, and when they're not, they let time prove them right. In other words, let's see how it plays out and what the bottom line is once the dust clears.

 

[Bill McElroy]

I don't think the UN will find anything for the simple reason....they don't WANT to find anything!!..the UN doesn't want a war and therefore they are not going to look very hard to find anything to cause one!!,...if they stumble on to something,..then they'll say.."Hey,...we found something!!!"...like the old saying.."Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile". Besides this is a case where GWB and the US will do what's necessary despite world opinion...as we've said before,...We're the country EVERYBODY runs to when they get threatened,...and we always seem to provide that help at our expense!! When someone wants to start something with us as they did on Sept.11th, then we'll have to administer justice whether we get any one elses help or not.....as GWB said before,.."You are either WITH us,..or AGAINST us,...and we will act accordingly".....There's nothing that makes this country stronger than a Pres. with cahonies,...(unlike our last one)

and in today's world.....we NEED a Pres. w/Cahonies!! He's done all the talking, negotiating, waiting and politicizing he can afford to do.....it's time to act and act once and for all!! Enough is enough! Hussein's gotta go....there..I'm done now too...ahahah...

 

[James D.]

i don't want war either and i don't think anybody does. the democrats know that bush can't let the cat out of the bag as far as the intelligence goes, so they are playing politics. i wish our elected leaders would run their parties ticket to get to office, and then when they get there, vote and act for what is best for the country. it is a disgrace to our country the way they act sometimes. the partisianship does not allow anything to get done and it hurts us on national issues. its ok to ask for the real evidence, but it is not ok to play politics with this. some demo's and repubs that have been presented with the evidence seem to agree with the pres but that is not good enough for all the whiners. be proud that we live in a country with a great military and support it.

jd

 

[Jr. Dunn]

By the way, I know two guys that have been in the reserves for a long time that were called up for duty. They were told not to expect to come home for at least a year.



I'm not looking forward to a war either.

I also didn't look forward to disciplining my kids but if they had it coming, they got it!



My guess is we will be kicking butts within a week.

 

[Pierre Voisine]

Well, guys there are many things going on that we do not know about, and want it or not it will happen as it will happen. I respect all of you and anyone who has an opinion, however, political discussion on a board such as this is a dangerous game to play. If anyone want to start an email thread I'm willing to discuss this more.



I agree something has to be done, and for those who know me I'm a go getter and usually prone to follow the "just do it" mentality, but in this case I'm not so sure. In a black and white situation it would be different, but now we are targeting one country when many more have yet to disarm. What abou the North Korea's, iran's, Israel's, and the list goes on....have all countries disarmed or are some better at hiding it that Irak ??? If we look at historical fact, only one country has ever dropped a neuclear weapon on someone else. There might even be a "sleeper" country that IS ready to use that no one knows about.



One thing is for sure, I don't have the answers.



pierre

 

[Rob LaMoy]

I think one of the biggest problems is that though many of us here agree and are very driven by our convictions, we're not heard as much as the left wing and liberals. That fault lies solely with us. Unfortunate, but true, they are much better at organizing, petitioning and being heard than we are. Granted the media is sickeningly biased and supports the left wing. But if enough of us that believe what we have said, take it to the streets and local meetings, press releases and cooridinate marches SUPPORTING George W, then the politicians might just realize how many votes they do lose to the "silent majority". You have to speak up to be heard. Stating how we feel here is great, but you need to e-mail your congressmen and women, and senators, and govenors etc. When a judge rules something stupid and ridiculous, or congress passes themself another hefty raise, *****ing here won't get the job done. We need to organize. You see PETA protests and anti gun protests, but you don't see pro gun or pro hunting/fishing rallies for political purpose. Granted we fund much better, the NRA is a perfect example, but we need to put words with the money! So while we're all good an riled up, let's go do something about it. I for one have started a petition to allow fishing guides that charter up to 22' vessels and less than 4 passengers a special permit or license to guide on inland waters only without a USCG license. That is ridiculous, but until someone makes a stink about it, nothing will change. Who wil sign my petition? I know Mini will, so he can guide! LOL

 

[Texas Transplant]

Speaking of Cahonies. We have a new Governor in SC (Sanford), that just took office about 10 days ago. When asked what he would do if his Air Force Reserve unit got called up. His reply was very straightforward.



I'm going. The Lt. Gov. can take over while I'm gone.



I like that attitude.



Tex

 

[Greg Meyer]

Pierre,



I do agree that this isn't really a political discussion board... But, I also believe that "we" are disciplined enough to "handle it" here. In fact, I find myself more willing to listen to an "opposing view" from a friend than a stranger. So, with that in mind...



First, disarming Iraq is not something new we are pushing for the first time now. We are not operating on "thin ice". We have the force of International Law on our side. Beware that loud rhetoric is not clouding the true facts. Here are the facts that I see. When we as the Coalition leader of a United Nations sponsored Army, sat down with the losing Iraqi representatives in the desert after we had just ousted Iraq's military from Kuwait (they had been there after an unprovoked attack...); Iraq agreed to disarm. They also agreed to account for Kuwaiti citizens, Coalition Pows, and a whole laundry list of other things. At that moment Iraq was a defeated agressor nation...executing a surrender under terms. Those terms from 1991 were under International Law and UN charter enforceable by any nation... So, this disarming of Iraq is not relevant in examining our realtionship with North Korea. And, yes we did drop a nuclear device on Japan, two in fact. And, most militray experts, scientists, and historians agree that doing that ended WWII... We did not start that war...remember Japan attacked the US and British bases, people and territory first. The post WWII judgment is that ab out 1 million lives were saved, both Japanese and American, British, Australian and Canadian by doing so...



Analogies are not always accurate... But, if there is a rabid wild dog in my neighborhood... I will not lock myself up behind my fences, I will not wait and hope it does not strike me or mine.... I will stop that dog, in defense of me, my family and my neighbors, I will act responsibly and protect "the good people" from the evil that that rabid dog represents. Same thing with "gang members" and rogue nations... You cannot ignore them and hope that they will go away or only harm "the other guy".



And, yes, the "situation" clearly justified our military action in Afghanistan. In simple terms, it was self defense and "hot pursuit" of the enemy. Merely because we are the most powerful military in the world does not mean that we have the right to do as we please. No one says that that is our right. But, neither is it our obligation, because we are so powerful, to allow ourselves to be attacked. Pierre, and others, do not forget we asked nicely first..."give us Bin Laden and the others"... Only when we had no other choice did we attack...And, in the process we ( the US and other nations, including Canada) may just have liberated a people and helped to build a better nation.

 

[Sam Elkins]

The same people that were saying back on 9-11, "What did the President know and when did he know it?" are the same ones that are now saying we shouldn't be doing anything proactive to protect ourselves. The democratic party is in such disarray they are starting to look foolish.



I wouldn't be surprised if Sadam were to go into exile, that it would be France.

 

[Greg Meyer]

I'm not sure that even France deserves him... But, that would not surprise me... They and the Russians have some much money owed to them... I bet if we guaranteed the payment we'd have new responses from them both...

 

[Pierre Voisine]

Greg,



Good comments. In a way I'm playing devil's advocate here. My personal view is that we (the coalition) should have taken Saddam out when we had the chance. Sending a team in to take the leader out might have been the right approach, but I'm sure the instability created with this might have enteiled much more unknowns that what did happen. it far better having an enemy you know and can predict that to not know who or what he's thinking.



You are right in that the Iraqui situation and North Korea are two seperate issues. My point is simply, so is 9/11. We are talking about three seperate issues that should be dealt that way.



As for dropping the neuclear device, that is the post analisys. The original intent although, situational was based on the same reasons motivating these other nations who are arming themselves.



I agree that is need for action, there is no doubt here. I think the approach GW is taking is good. he is letting the UN do their thing, he is helping them is submitting intelligence, and at the same time applying the right amount of pressure to ensure Saddam knows this is serious.



If the trend of wild dogs start to take place we look for the root cause and eliminate it. We cannot continue to kill rabid dogs because they exist....they will get smarter. Another dangerous issue is assuming our way of life is what everyone expects. The thinking of the "civilized" world is also flawed. Last time I checked, they have a God that says they are right also...



Remember who contributed in initial stages of the whole mess. When countries provide help and arms to help promote a way of life it seems to come and bite us in the ass.



Whatever happens....make it quick, war is expensive.

 

[Rich Stern]

I thought the foreign policy portion of the speech was good.



The domestic side...another story. All I heard was an endless announcment of new government spending. Everything from solving Africa's problems to new prescription drug benefits for the elderly. And, here's a real bargain: The prez says Congress should hold itself to increasing the federal budget to the same growth rate as people's income. Is that an worthy goal? Hell, no! How about spending less rather than more? And cutting taxes at the same time we increase spending? Whatever gain we make up in improvments in the economy is going to go right out the window in interest payments on the national debt.



There is a total lack of discipline in our federal government in regards to spending. When the leader of the Republican party is proposing Great Society type spending programs, we've really gone from the ridiculous to the sublime. Everyone wants pork for their constituents, pet projects, or as political payolla to secure votes.



It sickens me.



The people in government become so blinded by power, money, influence, perks, whatever, that they forget to modestly serve the basic interests of the people they represent for a short period of time, and then go home. Trent Lott, Ted Kennedy, et. al., have been in D.C. for decades. They are all cut from different sides of the same cloth. Career politicians who should have gone home twenty years ago, making way for other Americans to take a short break from their regular lives to serve in government, but not stay in government. Time for terms limits as well as tax reform.



Mario Cuomo (I believe he was paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson): "When government becomes inept and abusive at serving the people, the people should revolt."

 

[JAMES MOORE]

No but did you see who was sitting by the sleeping Ted Kennedy, our elustreous Senator Hillery. I'll bet you Ted could make her happy. As for Saddam, we predicted back in Desert Storm, Intelligence Section, that if we didn't finish the job now we'd be right back there in 10 years. It wasn't a preminition we knew that it would take him that long to covertly recover his chemical capabilities. So, we were off by a few months, but guess what, if we don't finish it this time heaven help us. A lot of civilian people are going to die needlessly.

 

[Bill McElroy]

This site rocks,.....i think it's so cool that we can come here and talk about everything from bubblegum senko's and toxic clouds in one post,..to a serious Global situation far removed from boating and fishing in another one!! Everyone speaks their mind, offers their opinions and insights, and we do it honestly and openly, and very rarely does anybody ever totally "lose it!!" This is a GREAT bunch of people....personally, I want to commend all of you for being such a class act...WE need to make all the members of this board..the NEXT congress!!! LOL!! Keep up the great dialog folks...this is a cool thread!! Just my .02!

Mac

 

[Greg Meyer]

Mac,



It is something that I have expressed before... I sent a comment to Scott (M) that I felt like this "place" had become like my old childhood neighborhood. Everybody...and I do mean everybody...could have the keys to my house and car anytime...(my boat is another story all together..lol) because this is just like that old neighborhood. This is a very unusual website... You read the political threads at LakeLink or WalleyeCentral and people get downright nasty and insulting and the boat bashing is even worse... A recent thread comes to mind... I hope he won't mind... Smitty came here angry and frustrated and got started on the wrong foot... Nobody told him to kiss off permanently... Instead, Scott and Mark Hoffman, and others offered him some advice and suggested that he calm down enough to see if we could not find a way to help him out... His did... and we did... and he is now a welcome member of the board. And, I hope that our help and support is getting him somewhere... It does sound like it is... I truly believe that that is one of the reasons that Tracker monitors and heeds comments on this board... We (at least appear to be) are reasonable people.



But, I really would prefer that for the sensitive and young children, that we only refer to "Toxic" blasts and black fly infestations after 9:00pm...



Can't wait to sit and have a beer with you in person buddy! And, anybody else here who gets close or is close...We should have NTOWS potluck dinners or something...lol

 

[Mike Levesque]

Wow, ok, gonna leave the soapbox in the corner. Or maybe not,LOL.

I'm a lifelong democrat, but before we all get our panties in a bunch here, being a democrat doesn't make me anti-war, or left wing, or a peta supporter,Saddam sympathiser, etc. Not all democrats are extreme left, same for republicans not all being extreme right wing.... I voted against Dubya, but ya know what? I completely support the man, I watched his speech last night, and of course wondered about some of his domestic portion of the speech... let's see, cut taxes (income), raise spending,(ALOT)....hmmm run a company or home finances that way, and you're either fired, or bankrupt, or both. But anyway, that's always the way, with a president's proposals, no matter who it is. However, the entire 2nd part of his speech, I was spellbound, I admire his determination, and you can see when he was talking about terrorism, Saddam, etc, he meant what he was saying, and wasn't just reading a teleprompter... I also think Saddam's time has come, and hope it's taken care of quickly with minimal loss of life to civilians and Allied troops. I also pray we haven't forgotten about Osama, who's still out there somewhere, thumbing his nose at us. North Korea? I agree with him there too. I know Clinton's not the most popular name around here, and I know the soaring stock markets of the 90's were as much a matter of him being in the right place at the right time as any of his policies, but the soaring markets and huge returns on investments happened on his watch. But to be honest, I've lost more on my investments over the last couple years than I gained over the previous eight years. Not totally blaming Dubya for that, but it is happening on his watch, ya know. Either way, this Democrat's totally behind our president, and was very impressed by his address last night.......

 

[Steve Helscher]

 

[Steve Helscher]

Sorry, pushed the wrong key, I have been following this discussion here and on a few other boards. I am amazed about how many are obsessing with the last part of his speech. The war is inevitable, it will be going on within a month. I am more concerned about the first half. Like Rich mentioned earlier, I found his comments on what he wants to do while the war is going on outlandish. We need to take care of our financial problems here at home. How many of your states are facing huge budget deficits? Your federal tax cut will probably get eaten up by a raise in your state taxes or property taxes. Saddam will be a memory shortly, but at what cost for our economy? Remember 1992, GW Sr. couldn't get the economy going and look what happened! People forgot Desert Storm. People are really more concerned about their jobs and their kids future. I hope the economy gets a kick start, I hope we can rid the world of AIDS, I hope we can keep the enviroment safe for our future. I am curious about what an outboard running on Hydrogen and Oxygen will look like. I just hope things work out for the best. Our kids future depend on it.

 

[Ken Neeley]

Golly....I start my first Boat Show this week and miss all this fun!!!

I'm reeeeaallll tired right now so I have just one thing to say:

KEN AND MAC---BETTER THAN CRACK!!!

ok...one more thing

KEN AND MAC---WOULD BOMB THE HELL OUTTA IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jr. Dunn]

I was going to just shut up on this thread but saw where Steve H made a comment regarding states budget deficits and I couldn't help but comment because it really touches a nerve. I keep hearing this budget deficit crap in the state where I live and all they want to do is raise taxes! Hello! There is another option folks. It is what we all do in our own personal financial situation....cut spending! I'm not talking about spending for education or other truly important things. In my travels around this state for example, everywhere I look, I see millions of dollars being spent on new overpasses, roads, etc. I'm not saying they may not be needed at some point to eliminate traffic congestion and to make traveling a little nicer but if you don't have the cash, don't spend it!

Pretty basic business management practice I would say. And, there are many other examples of unnecessary spending that I won't go into.

I strongly support George W. and I'll bet he would agree that a lot of our political leaders need a good old fashioned "time out"!

 

[Greg Meyer]

THe economics are not too hard to comprehend... The theory according to economists is that by cutting taxes we actually increase economic activity and therefore increase the tax base and actually "grow the economy" more than the revenue cut... The ratios are somewhere about 7 to 1... For every dollar left to spend about 7 dollars of economic activity is created. The worker gets an extra dollar...he spends it with the grocer... the grocer spends that dollar with his wholesaler...etc..on up the chain... it passes through enough hands up the way to generate more than a dollar in new taxes and about 7 dollars in economic activity...



Also, the Proposed Federal Prescription drug benefit might be revenue neutral... The new program will definitely reduce the federal medicaid reimbursement to the states and that might be enough to pay for the federal benefit when added to the "premium" revenue...



Education... That is an investment that might pay for itself and more. Lower costs for state and federal assistance programs and correctional and other costs... Paid for by worker taxes... taxes that would not have ever been...



I'm no economist...But, I have some faith in this administration's ability to make good choices.



Thirty years ago...fuel injection was strictly a high performance option... Now its the economy choice... So, maybe fuel cells and hydrogen engines and hybrids will be the engine of the future...A lot of good things started with a little imagination and evolutionary engineering.

 

[Rich Stern]

Greg, recall the name of the government program that funded the development of fuel injection 30 years ago? Me neither.





Recall the name of the any government program for seniors that didn't go on to become a permanent entitlement with exploding costs? Yeah, me neither.



As far as new economic activity via tax dollars returned to the people, yes, it grows the economy, but, when push comes to shove, if the debt is piling up, there will be intense political pressure to raise revenue to pay debt and interest.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

egMike brings up my biggest point. I don't mean to, nor can you paint the entire democratic party with a broad brush stroke. I simply mean when I summarize, that the majority of those elected politicians act that way. I know many terrific democrats. But unfortunately it seems to me that once they get elected they have to "transform" into the Kennedy or Clinton types. However, I do not completely agree with everything the republicans do either. Like many of you, I believe the spending has got to STOP! I'm tired of seeing my tax money go to other countries that have no intention of repaying while our national debt skyrockets and we have plenty of domestic problems. Neither party is completety what I believe, but the republicans most closely resemble my personal belief system. I like where the democrats stand on education and the environment. But I like the republican views on gun control, foreign policy, taxes, abortion, and a few other key issues. If we could just find 1 canidate that would represent all that we believe in, how much better would the world be? Ken and Mac, better than crack. (that ought to secure about 95% of the druggie vote, but unfortunately, they don't vote, so that amounts to.......6 votes nationwide) Ken, we gotta look at different demographics! LOL

 

[Texas Transplant]

Okay. I need some clarification and help here. I ask the following question(s) sincerely, and not from a tounge in cheek perspective.



While I have a basic understanding of economics, and certainly have a good handle on what my household economics is, and what drives it, I do not have enough knowledge and experience to really understand the drivers of the bigger picture.



Right now, GWB and his administration have put forward their economic stimilus package. It includes tax cuts and other items. The opposition has said that these are failed policies and don't work. I also have some questions about the new spending deficits. Since I've asked our former President where is he getting the money, I have to be fair and ask this one also.



Now the question(s):



1) If the tax cuts and spending programs that GWB has on the table right now won't work, what is it that the opposition is offering that will work?



2) I believe that the biggest problem right now is overall confidence, by both the consumers, and by general business. How do we get that back? I'm thinking that part of getting that back is to get done with Iraq, at least from a big picture perspective.



Okay. Somebody chime in here and help me out.



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

The problem with a perfect middle of the road candidate, is lack of support from congress once he/she get's elected!!

The "agendas" of the GOP and the DEM's won't allow any kind of bipartisan cooperation!!..ahahah....neither side wants to be thought of as "selling out"......this person would have to be awe-inspiring..a genius...a coach,..player,..and referee....not to mention a perfect facilitator and confidant...and it would help if he/she came from a humble background and never learned the meaning of "selfish, greedy, or racist"....can't think of anybody like that now though!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Mac, we haven't had bi=patisan cooperation for any length of time since WWII... Lincoln is about the only President that fills some of your requirements... ANd that probably is only because history is kind to martyrs... Oh. I'm too busy to run... I make all the points except "genius" and that "selfish and greedy" part my be tough... I mean I can be selfish and greedy any time I want!!!! LOL

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Exactly! I often said I would love to run for president some day, but because I didn't come from a wealthy family, attend an Ivy league school etc etc, I wouldn't make it to the primaries. However, less than 5% of the voting population fit that bill either, so why is it then that they only vote those guys in? I would be an honest canidate. Weird huh? "Mr. LaMoy, did you inhale?" "Damn sure did, didn't you when you were 16 too?" "Yes I've been arrested too, done some pretty stupid things as a kid. But that is most of americans, deal with it!" See that is what I would think americans want, one of their own, so to speak, in the big house. A person that worked their way up and earned it. Came thru local politics and had the support of the people, not necessarily the party. But I have also said, you would have to vote for my running mate the VP, because I wouldn't last a month. Someone would try to assasinate me quick. I'd tick off a lot of good ole boys real fast starting with pay cuts in both senate and congress. I told my wife the other night, I really hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone attempts to take a pop at George W. They always do for the really stand up presidents. He doesn't care right now what many people think, he is doing what's right. And for that, some lunatic will probably try something stupid. What really amazed me, is that nobody tried with Bill Clinton. Not that he was a stand up president, but that he was such a slug. But then again, Billy was a criminal best friend. LOL

 

[Bill McElroy]

I was being facesious in my description of a perfect candidate...nobody fits that bill short of Christ himself!...And it will probably take some "Divine Intervention" to get things back in order y'know!!!..ahahaha

 

[Rob LaMoy]

No doubt. But if you got somebody down to earth, then a lot of this garbage wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Tony Payne]

Rob,



This is one of the reasons I liked (what I heard about) Jesse Ventura as Governer... I don't live there, but the impression I got was that he didn't let BS get in the way, and he spoke plainly and honestly, Even when it got him in trouble.



Now, that being said, the only way it would really work is if we were able to replace EVERYONE there with just such people. Otherwise, those that are willing to speak and do are outvoted by those that wont.

 

[Mike Levesque]

Rob, you bring up a very interesting point, (scary, but interesting) about the stand up kind of presidents, being, well, a threat I suppose to some demented folks, and sometimes becoming a "target".

Noone tried it with Slick Willie cause he was the teflon man.... everything slid right off, hehe....

This thread has become very informative, interesting,and I know no matter what party one or the other of us may be, deep down we're all AMERICANS, the more I find out about Dubya, the more I do think no matter what his policy, or agenda, he is at least trying to put America first.What? Did this lifelong Dem. say that? Guess so!!

Anyhow, I'm really enjoying reading all these as I'm sure alot of us are, and as usual with this site, another first class thread........

 

[gone bye bye]

"I respect all of you and anyone who has an opinion, however, political discussion on a board such as this is a dangerous game to play."



But I will add that the world would be more peaceful without Saddam & Osama.



My .02....



Anyone been fishing lately?



Mini

 

[Greg Meyer]

Hey Mini...



No fishing just yet...But, I'm taking the boat to the mechanic Saturday... First trip is in February and tournaments start in March... So, I'm getting antsy!!!

 

[Bob G.]

Mini,



Not fishing yet. My boat kind of lays on its side when I launch it. The prop hitting the ice makes the boat go in circles. It's also difficult getting it back on the trailer!



Bob G.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

I tried last weekend, but by the time I got done chiseling a hole big enough to fit the boat in.....I was too tired to fish.