Off Topic -- Mars Mission

[Carl Pylant]

NASA'S Mars mission is costing, at a minimum $820,000,000. Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd? If the government can spend this kind of money on a meaningless project such as this, I don't want to hear about Social Security being in trouble. Just curious as to what fellow boaters think about this.

 

[Larry Harp]

I'm reminded of a bumper sticker I saw once that read,

"I pray for the day when the schools have all the textbooks they need and the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a new bomber"

Although I don't agree 100% with that statement I do feel that some of the sentiment of it is necessary in our budgeting of government spending. A few years ago some civic groups here in Oklahoma had the idea that we needed to complete the state capital dome. (History lesson; when Oklahoma was a new state they ran out of money while building the capital building and never built the dome on top, so we went domeless for close to a 100 years. Imagine a time in America when governments did not spend money they did not have!) ANYWAY the whole project was supposed to be done with private contributions. OK sounds good. The idiot governor goes ahead with the project without all the money in the bank in fact without not very much of the money in the bank. Well, long story short the state had to dip into the tax money to complete the multi-multi million dollar (sorry I didn't research this before I started so I don't have the exact $ numbers.) project. No big deal except this is at the time when our school system is going bankrupt. The salaries Oklahoma public school teachers are ranked 49th in the nation and we a desperatly trying to keep new teachers from moving out of state for higher salaries. A first year teacher in Texas makes about $20,000 more per year than here. The number one goal of the state is to attract new industry to the state. What would a company looking for a location for a new high-tech industry be more interested in, top notch education system or a state capital building that looks like every other in the nation?

Projects like space exploration are useful for the devolpment of new technology and to keep that kind of higher thinking moving BUT let's make sure the basic stuff like education, health care for the elderly and a strong national infrastruture is taken care of FIRST!



Harpo

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

OK,

Tend to agree with both of you but, does not something like the Mars/space stuff spur creative juices that will in the long run pay off? Technology like that is very expensive (especially to a business that needs quick payback) and the applications here on Earth may take a while to be realized.

As a side thought, no research done, did the 50's and 60's space race help any with technology? Computers maybe?



Carlos

 

[Mikel Stephens]

The cost is miniscule compared to what we are spening keeping milk and cheese in the friges of perfectly healthy citizens that are milking our "system" for whatever they can.



Rock-on space program!!!

 

[Mikel Stephens]

"did the 50's and 60's space race help any with technology"?



actually yes
http://techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/at_home.html

 

[Jim Brone]

 

[Jim Brone]

It could potentially solve the problem of where humans will live once we destroy this planet. You don't actually think every living thing originated here do you?

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Thanks Mike... I didn't know how to say it myself but agree 100%.



Bill

 

[Larry Harp]

Don't get me wrong, I absoultly agree that NASA and the space program along with many other high tech government projects are necessary to stimulate and refine technology. We must support the sciences as well as the arts in order to be a leader in the world community. What irks me is to let education, highways, healthcare for the old and underpriviledged, and yes food for the underfed. I would much rather give a gallon of milk to someone who doesn't really need it than to make a billionaire even richer. Those programs help not only the poor but they help you and me by keeping food prices low.



Harpo

 

[gone bye bye]

If we can spend that much on space exploration, then GW should be extending unemployment benefits....WAY too many people still out of work in the Detroit area and benefit and benefit extensiions are over.



Just my .02.



Mini

 

[Mikel Stephens]

"then GW should be extending unemployment benefits"



WRONG



People should get off of their F@$#&*G ARSES and get a job.

GW isn't responsible for that.



Why should you and I pay for people to have even longer to live off of us????



Longest time I have ever been unemployed is 8 days...I don't buy it: If you can't get a job-you aren't looking hard enough...if there are no jobs where you live-we live in the largest free country where you can find a job almost anywhere. If you still can't get a job, either create your own work or take a long, hard look at yourself b/c therein lies the problem.

 

[Jim Brone]

Well stated Mikel. I just hope for yourself and the rest of us that will always hold true.

 

[Larry Harp]

That right! Screw 'em, let em starve!

That is just the kind insensitivity that is so prevalent these days that makes me seriously worry about the future of this county.

That's all I'll say on this thread.



Harpo

 

[Mikel Stephens]

sorry to be so rash guys. Hope that didn't offend anyone. I feel really strongly about it though. You guys do bring up some good points about spending that I agree with. Kinda like our fihsing licenses in Texas...we are paying for arcade game rooms...kinda thought that was the oppsite of what TPWD was trying to accomplish.

 

[Paul Mazza]

And how do you think I feel?

I'm the one up here doing all the work and in a year nobody will remember my name.

I'm so PO'd I think I'll stop talking...

 

[Rich Stern]

It's cheap!



A B-2 bomber costs a cool $2 billion. Yes, that's a "b" not an "m"! Although, after thinking about the price "bm" comes to mind.



Seriously, as a society, we juggle many priorities. Taken out of context (like comparing how many homeless people we could shelter for the price of a single bomber), it doesn't make sense.



However, when viewed as a total budget, where each item is a percentage of the entire budget, it makes more sense. NASA's budget is about $15 billion a year. That represents about 1% of our national budget. When you consider that space exploration has huge potential for solving many social and economic issues, it's not a lot to spend. IMHO.

 

[Carl Pylant]

At the risk of asking a stupid question, just how does space exploration help solve social and economic issues? Let's just say we cut NASA's budget in half.....that's $7.5 billion for say education, national defense, highways, etc. I would rather see our money spent educating our children instead of taking photos of a planet we can never inhabit.

 

[gone bye bye]

Let em starve while we subsidise third world and terrorist holding countries? Cmon folks these are my friggin neighbors here. These are NOT lazy people. They are hard working Americans that have carried on the tradition of manufacturing/design/engineering of American vehicles. I know of three or four people in my neighborhood that are filing for bankrupcy because of the lack of employment. All of them have children, have mortgages and newer cars. Some have taken on other jobs at half of what they were making just to try and keep up and yet will still have to sell their cars/trucks to make ends meet. NONE of them are living beyond thier means. AND thier employers are sending most of the jobs they were doing overseas.



I understand your feelings, but I am not talking about baby spewing welfare moms here, or their lazy good for nothing fathers......I am talking about red blooded American workers. The popel that actually made this economy strong at one point. AND I am not talking about unlimited unemployment, just a little relief until things turn around.



Yea you struck a nerve, because I was there about a year and a half ago.



What kind of car do you drive? Please buy american people, this neck of the American woods really needs it.



Bottomline is that unemployment rates are as high as they have ever been and the government is turning its back on these people. I am not one for free handouts and I know that anyone of these people would work for the money that is given to them.



Mini

 

[J B]

Uh, maybe they will find a big ole bass lake there on Mars. Then what would everybody think?

 

[Richard Whittemore]

I didn't read all the replys on this one but we really need the Mars thing so we'll have a place to go when we completely screw this place up with all our greed and wars and throwing trash out the car windows. depleteing our water supply etc. I guess it'll be cheaper in the long run...to screw up another planet.

 

[gone bye bye]

I figured a guy that fishes Castaway rods would have that type of sentiment. Ill bet he doesnt even know they are imported....



Mini

 

[J B]

We are pioneers by nature. Exploration is in our blood. Pushing the limits of our technology will provide untold benefits for years to come. This technology also provides jobs in and out of the space arena. It keeps America on top of the technological ladder, which we must remain. I suppose we could take all of the defense and space budget and provide social programs for everyone, but that would not be the spirit of America, and we would not survive as a country.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Technology and the knowledge is fine but, have we ever been back to the moon? Do we have any need to go back? Do they really think people can live there or on Mars?...keep dreamin'!

Now spendin' money for space travel to discover new planets and life is another story...

TEE

 

[Travis Smith]

I guess I really dont care about the whole issue.







T.S.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Never say Never,..your average PC's you're using now are all MORE powerful than the computers they used in the Command modules and Lunar rovers used to put man on the moon,...an infinite number of every day things we take for granted, medical techniques, home appliances, medicines, etc..etc..were all developed or perfected for space travel!

We won't know what the hell's out there unless we go for it!! Thank God the pioneers moving west didn't stop and call it quits once they hit Ohio!! LOL!!! We deffinitely need to keep our priorities in line at home,..but we need to keep exploring the unknown and learn all we can,..no matter what the cost is....mankind depends on it!! IMHO!!



Mac

 

[gone bye bye]

Carbon Fiber, Surface Mounted Components, HUD, Sattelite navigation, etc...



The list is longer than I can recite. We have learned ALOT from heading into space. I am not saying to stop exploring, it is who we are....All I am saying is that we should contimue to help the people that have funded the program to begin with (the US Taxpayers) when they need it the most.



Mini

 

[Texas Transplant]

Seems like many of us forget, that the federal goverment does not spend money on education. For the most part, the Department of Education is basically made up of Bureaucrats.



Unfortunately, we will never (at least in my lifetime), spend the money that we should on our children's education. Especially in the K-6 timeframe, where the basis for their ability to effectively learn/grow/think is being molded.



As for what the space program does provide (and has provided), let's remember that if 'we' hadn't had the space program that we did, it is quite likely that we would not be sitting here conversing with each other over the internet.



Almost all advances in 'insultation protection', whether it be for machines, people or housing, came indirectly from NASA. Advances in miniturazation of electronics, same thing.



Tex

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Mac..that's not exploring the unknown..We know that the moon has nothing to offer..and I'm pretty sure that Mars doesn't either. I agree with exploration but, use it wisely and DON'T waste my tax dollars...There's enough of that pissedaway by the government!

TEE

Don't get n me started on WASTEFUL SPENDING by the government...I SEE IT everyday!

 

[Bill McElroy]

We wouldn't have known there was nothing there unless we looked!! After all,..we had to "confirm" that it wasn't made of cheese!!..LOL Like I said,..."Go west young man,...and don't stop in OHIO!!"...ahahahahhh

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

And let's not forget that if the government could manage the welfare program as it was intended we would all be happy. Those that need it get it and we still have enough for space exploration etc.



TOXIC

 

[TrepMan]

This one can and has gone in a LOT of directions! One thing I love about this site is we have folks from different political, religious, cultural...backgrounds ALL having an intelligent debate. So i'll chime in too:



- Education - It's not about the $$ stupid!! Georgia's spending per student is in top 5% (if I remember correctly, i know Rich or someone can find the info) in the nation but our SAT scores are 50th!!!! Its about parental involvement in the schools system, parents TEACHING their own kids how to respect, learn, live and NOT the schools problem. That is not saying we don't need to continualy improve and strive for new learning techniques but you CAN NOT blame most of it on the governement teachers.



- Unemployment/Layoffs - Mini, i'm glad to hear that a lot of the folks layed off in Detriot are taking lower paying jobs to help support their families and I AM sorry that some are having to go into bankruptcy. BUT my first question on those that have newer cars, trucks, boats... Did they FIRST put away 6-12 months of savings to cover mortage, food, bills and THEN buy those newer vehicles? Too many americans (more then 50% do NOT pay their credit card balance in full each month) have gotten themselves into a habit of learning from the Imperial Federal Governement - Deficit Spending! If you can't afford it DON'T BUY it! And if you do and loose your job and do not have a cushin, don't come crying to me.



- Space Exploration - I'm with Rich on this, we NEED to keep looking for new things and pushing the techology envelope. Who knows when we might find new things that might save people, create jobs, ... Remember that NASA budget is PAYING for jobs to build, man, support the missions!



- If REALY want to shrink the Federal Government, and KEEP more of YOUR tax Dollars (remember it's OUR $$ they're spending NOT theirs!), then vote OUT the folks who keep adding new entitlement programs (that some Rebublicans AND Democrates)! Try voting Libertarian for once!



- Support of the poor, uneducated... IF they realy are not just LAZY (like a number of them are) then let ME decide thru my temple/charities and volunteer work how to help them. DO NOT take MY hard earned $$'s and let some socialist decide how to spend it.



OK, back to your regularly scheduled 2 party system! LOL

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Hehe..he said,"PARTY"!!!!

Giterdone! Right Mac

 

[gone bye bye]

Yes Trep, some of them had enough to live on for 12 months. All of them for at least 6. All of them have been out of work for close to two years....and the prospects of gaining employment at their salary range is non existant.



Some are making 6.50/hr when they were making 65K/yr. Pretty sad.



Mini

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Sounds like the NEW people their hiring for Chrysler..do the same work, no benefits for two years and makin' a third of what some guy next to ya's makin'!

 

[TrepMan]

Now remember if you're concerned about "buy american" buying a Chrysler/Dodge is the same as buying a Mercedes!



There is realy not much left in consumer goods that are 100% Made in America.

 

[Bill McElroy]

ALL STAR Rods are!!! LOL Now go out a GITER DONE!!!

 

[TrepMan]

Good point Mac, but do they use Fugi guides? or are they just assembled in the US (Mini - Not picking on All Star just asking). I find it hard in this truly global marketplace to find products that have multiple components that are ALL AMerican made. Heck, look at any Ford/GM product and see the location %'s for parts.



So then the next logical discussion goes something like this : If you buy a Import car that was made in the US is that better or worse then a US car made in Mexico?



Lots of good points above and lots of more ways we can go on this topic.



So, anyone besides me willing to admit that i'm NOT a Democrat OR a Rebublican, and REALY wants smaller government, less takes and more personal responsbility enforced??

 

[TOMMY RICH]

True Trep! I don't think I've seen anything that's 100% American...somewhere along the long it won't be. It should but, it won't.....Everything is comin' from China now!

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHH! /

__

 

[Rich Stern]

Carl, the Earth is a finite resource. The world has a population growth rate that will someday put us up against the wall, for living space, energy, food, maybe even oxygen. The human race thrives on expansion, which necessarily includes pioneership. We have to be out there looking for resources. The Earth is too small to contain humankind for many more centuries. It just won't work.



Exploring other planets helps us build basic knowlege about our solar system, space, how life might be able to exist on other planets (human and otherwise). We need that information for our long term survival.



And in the meantime, the space program does provide a lot of innovation that we otherwise might not have.

 

[gone bye bye]

Fuji compnents are barely used in the overall scheme of things at all star. I think we use some of the reel seats in our bluewater avenger line. We do not use Fuji guides. We use propritary PacBay guides (Pac Bay is located in Washington State)



We truley do build the All American Rod for every rod in our catalog. We do also import certain rods for certain retailers low price points, but the retailer assumes the warranty, not us.



This is VASTLY different than any other rod company out there....you would be surprised to find out where Loomis/Castaway/American Rodsmiths are getting blanks....



Mini