MORE Headcount Cuts!! Will it EVER stop??

[Bill McElroy]

Man,.....450 more Designers are losing their jobs today where I work!!:angry: This is ridiculous!! The executives get multi-million dollar bonuses while market share and stock values plummet......and the real workers get walking papers as a way to pay for bad managerial decisions.:angry::angry: I'm really getting tired of this crap!! WHEN will corporate managers in this country EVER be held accountable for THEIR bad decisions???

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Soon Mac....very soon!:unsure:

 

[Marty Klein]

Gotcha on the CEO big bonuses. :angry:



Even the guy who designed the "running lights [light]" for the trucks/SUVs doesn't deserve getting canned.

 

[Buzz Bouvier]

We just laid off 180 at Big Blue where I work on Tuesday, we have gone from 8400 employees in 2001 to 5400 as of today at our site. Big Blue calls it a resource action.



Buzz

 

[TOMMY RICH]

With Moraine so close and remembering all the lots full anytime I went by...it's really sad and where does it stop?:blink:

 

[Berry Lindley]

I know plenty about this from experience. Was released after 23 yrs service (and moving 3 times at their pleasure) to a restructuring. It was after 9-11, a really tough time to be out of work. They only care about the money now.

 

[Marty Klein]

You know, Tee ... I don't think it will ever stop until we all take the approach that we need to make sure everyone has a method of feeding their family instead of focusing on being the one with the most money, the most toys. CEOs are no different than pro athletes; big money to the arrogant mustards, while the little guy schleps hot dogs for peanuts. Extra money brought in bloats the pro athlete wallet, while the little guy makes less because the fan can't afford to buy the same number of hot dogs.

 

[Bill McElroy]

It irritates the hell out of me, to see virtually NO CUTS in the managerial ranks or even their "perks" when the money gets tight. My boss (and every other manager and higher up) in this company gets a FREE company car and FREE gas AND insurance!! Yet,..when they need to cut back and save cash...they'll NEVER consider eliminating or cutting back in those areas......WTF?! Make them pay for their own gas for cryin' out loud...but NOOOOO,..they'll layoff 300 people or more first....screw their families,..screw who ever they have to,..but NOOO WAY will they give up their free gas card!! This company would save MILLIONS per year if these blowhards had to feel the pain at the pump like the rest of us do!! Wanna see a design engineer get SERIOUS about making a fuel efficient engine?? Make the yahoo pay for his own gas in his company sponsored Escalade!!! :blink::angry:

 

[Paul P]

I hear ya Mac. I was just laid off from a large software company. My last 2 jobs were at large software companies and the story was the same. The corporate people made more money year after year independent of whether the company was successful at the time or not. Many of them got 2x and greater income year after year (not to mention that many had 6 and 7 figure packages to start with) while no raises were given to those doing the work in addition to layoffs and moving jobs over seas. The work standards have gone from high quality, creative work to mediocre work ... do enough to just get by and make as much money at the moment. I think many of these companies forget what got them to where they are now.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Here's something Obama said recently,..(atleast there's "something" I agree with him on!)..LOL



In May 2007, Sen. Obama gave a speech to the Detroit Economic Club in which he criticized the Big Three for working to defeat federal fuel-economy standards that may have helped fix the industry. He blasted Detroit for having "continued to reward failure with lucrative bonuses for CEOs."

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Same with the guvment Mac!

NOW they want to TRANSFORM us so we (the little man) can do their jobs too! WTF?

It's stuck for now (and hopefully will be forever) in the personel office because the union has no pull anymore (not that they had that much anyway).

Here' my thoughts on pay banding....

Supervisor- "Id like to promote you but, the lowest salary band for the next level is 20% higher than your current pay. Raises are capped at 5%, so theres no way to give you the promotion you wanted."

So..."I plan to hire someone from the outside that you can train to be your supervisor".

:angry:

 

[Randy Walls]

I am glad to say that I work for a great company. Granted no one is going to get rich here, but being in management we have just voted on giving everyone a $1.00 hour raise due to the cost of gas, food etc. going sky high. This will not affect their raises which they get annually at the first of the year. Here is the kicker. Doesn't matter if your one of the union folks or not, everyone is going to get it. They are just trying to help out best they can. We are not the $20+ dollar any hour jobs in the auto industry but we aren't McDonald's either, plus we have an excellent benefit package. I do feel fortunate but realize one bad mistake by me or the management team could take it all away for everyone.



Randy!

 

[Marty Klein]

Tee-I'm certainly not going to issue a "liar, liar, pants on fire" but I think you are a "little less than correct" re: the NSPS promotion system. Promotion pay raises can can be 6-20% [or the amount necessary to reach the minimum of the new pay band]. The high end of a lower pay band overlaps the low end of the next higher pay band. Now, to be sure, the old GS inflationary pay processes have left to make room for more market based salaries.



Still, government salaries are pretty good. And, the NSPS formalizes the annual bonus process for everyone instead of just a few getting an annual bonus. I think it's still a win-win and better than what many of our counterparts receive on the block.



We now return you to your regular programming ...

 

[Bill McElroy]

I think that we'll come out of this a better company in the long run....no doubt about it. BUT,...the struggle to get there is getting ludicrous when the sacrifices being made aren't being spread out "equally" if you catch my drift. I just have a hard time seeing 10 people lose their jobs when they could whack ONE VP and save the SAME amount of money! The loss of those 10 people WILL be felt.....their work will be doled out to the remaining people in the group (or outsourced entirely)...and NOBODY would miss that VP (except maybe his/her secretary) because all they do is delegate their stuff to subordinates anyway....heck..they'd probably appreciate the lighter work load for awhile, until all of the sudden they create 2 NEW VP jobs to make up for the one they eliminated! It's nuts...:wacko:

 

[Marty Klein]

Yes Mac, you guys will all tighten up, get the job done in spite of the cuts, and the CEOs will all shout "huzzah" and cash their bonus checks-a vicious cycle greased by the working man.

 

[KEVIN WERHAN]

We are not the $20+ dollar any hour jobs in the auto industry but we aren't McDonald's either, plus we have an excellent benefit package.



Randy, I'm not sure how to take that statement. I am a auto tech and I do not make $20/hr. I wish I did though because I am barely keeping food in my childrens mouths, much less, clothes on their backs. Have you seen how much union truck drivers make? 5 yr

over the road ups drivers are making 30 plus/hr, and they don't have continued training or 100k in tools.



I know you were just making a generalized statement, I really just wanted to add my 2 cents to this discussion because I, too, am fed up with how corporations rape and pilage their hourly paid workers, oh yea, some salaried workers too. Where is this country going that I love so much?



Thanks to everyone who defends this great nation!!! If it were left up to the guvmt., I think we may under total dictatorship!!!

 

[Marty Klein]

"Thanks to everyone who defends this great nation!!! If it were left up to the guvmt., I think we may under total dictatorship!!!" :huh:



I'm not sure what that means. It IS left up to the government, and we aren't a dictatorship.

 

[Randy Walls]

KW I agree whole heartedly. Just a blanket statement. I am the VP of Human Resources for my company and fight tooth and nail for everything my teammates get. since I have started we have given at least 3% c.o.l. annually and usually more all while still increaing our benefits package and lowering costs. Beliee me when I say it is not easy but a great bunch here and the owners know it.



I too love this country and give thanks everyday.



Randy!

 

[Bruce Freeman]

It's only going to get worse and with time the top will feel the pain also. I was in the corprate world long enough to know I was tired of being bought and sold with every company. After I got laid off a few months ago I moved back to a larger company that I felt could afford me. I left after a few weeks to a smaller family owned bussiness that I felt would keep me no matter what. We will survive, but the money whores have to be stopped.



Vote them all out and lets start over again.



BF

 

[Jim C]

I think it's hysterical when a company tries to defend CEO pay. General response is that "we have to pay him/her that kind of money or they'll go work for the competition". Well, get moving! Go lose 200 million or a billion dollars for my competitior. PLEASE!!!!

 

[KEVIN WERHAN]

I'm not sure what that means. It IS left up to the government, and we aren't a dictatorship.



Hey Marty, I guess my point was not that understandable. What I meant was, I believe that the government does have too much control in our lives already. If it continues to go the way it is going, CHINA, may end up owning the United States of America. We already owe way too much, to too many other countries.

 

[Tornado]

History says that in the 40's and 50's the executives made 10 times what their working employes made, the span between the executives and the worker bees in most cases today is significantly higher than that and no one can convince me that they are worth it. I'm retired from a large company and as others have said it's all about the executive bonuses and their pockets at the expense of the people that put it in their pockets. The one thing I'm sure of is the government is not the answer, how many successful government programs can you name? I like the idea of voting them all out and starting again.

 

[KEVIN WERHAN]

HERE HERE.....I TOTALLY AGREE AND TERM LIMITS FOR ALL POSITIONS, NO MORE LIFE LONG POLITICIANS.

 

[Bill McElroy]

GREED is the problem here,...not politicians. NOBODY is worth the kind of money these people (and I won't even get into the stupidity of sports contracts) make at the expense of other's losing jobs. Our group is supposed to pilot a project where 2 dudes were going to try working from home, to see if our job can actually be done outside of an office environment, but you would not believe the hassles and delays they are having getting laptops, cell phones, database access, and printers because of "budget cuts"!! There's never any money available to DO OUR !@#% JOBS, but there's always MILLIONS available to reward the zec's for poor performance!! Our stock hit a 30 year LOW yesterday,...I'm sure SOMEONE in the RenCen will get a bonus for THAT!!:angry::angry:

 

[Larry Harp]

Personally I don't agree with mandated term limits. For one thing we already have term limits, it's called open elections. What we need is an educated electorate that gets out and votes. When less than 50% of the registered voters actually vote and half of them are voting for a candidate because they are cute, or they have a good lookin' wife or they wear a flag pin or they seem like the kind of guy they'd most like to drink a beer with then crap is what you end up with. Then once they get into office they are bought and paid for by the special interests and the districts are gerrymandered so all they have to do is not get caught having sex with a goat in a bus station bathroom to stay in office for decades. I know that's an argument for term limits but what if you have a representative that is doing a great job, do you want to kick him/her out just because their time is up? I don't think so. We need to vote for a candidate for more than some of the silly reasons I hear people voting for and we need to pay attention to who we are voting for. If a bum is in office, it's our fault.

 

[Jim C]

I agree, it's the electorates fault. When people start making informed choices with their brains, not with political party affiliation, or for one or two single issues, then we will start seeing positive change in this country. When we vote a president in merely because a poll says he can beat the other party, and issues, morals, and character are out the door, we've seen for the last 8 years what that gets us!

 

[Bill McElroy]

Totally agree w/Sooner (as usual!!..LOL)...the BEST minds in this country who can REALLY fix stuff wouldn't run for political office if it were the last thing left to do!! WAY to much emphasis put on their past mistakes and failures, instead of their successes. Edison FAILED at his light bulb experiments 100 times before he got it right!! Imagine if he ran for an office today,...."He's a HUGE FAILURE!!" :lol:

 

[KEVIN WERHAN]

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but how does anyone make an informed decision about a presidential election when both parties are running tv and radio commercials slamming each other with what horrible things they have done, and are going to do? The whole election process is to blame, in my opinion, and trust me, I am not alone in this belief.



Money = power...right? So then, does power = GREED? If so, who has all of the power in this country? CEO'S, POLITICIANS, GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, ETC. This country's problems start at the top, the rest of us on the bottom, are just along for the ride!!!

 

[Jim C]

There lies your/our problem. I'd guess 90% of people who vote, do so based on those TV ads and what they hear in the media, NRA, Move On.org, etc, or by verbal or e-mail rumor. VERY, VERY few people go out seeking the information on their own. Research their voting records, research information from non-partisan sources, and just read between the lines on those TV and radio ads. Go to the candidates sites and see what they stand for and not just rely on the ads telling you why to not vote for the other guy. Check multiple sources to see if they are factual or misleading. It's all available at the click of a mouse. All the time we spend on fishing sites here complaining about the problem, we can take a few hours out of that time to make an informed vote every few years. It pays to do so. Literally.



And people need to break the two party system! Ron Paul, good example. Of the people I discussed him with, 3 out of 4 wanted to vote for him, but chose not to do so because they would "waste their vote". That's absurd. So instead, they vote for the typical political crooks in one of the two parties. That seems more of a wasted vote to me.

 

[Jim C]

Maybe Ron isn't a great example in that sense. I still have a hard time thinking of him as a Republican, not a Libertarian. LOL Even so, it still points to the fact that America is obsessed with the political status quo. Someone can even be from one of the two parties, stand for what people believe in, yet they still feel they have to vote for someone that fits the typical political mold of big money, corruption, deception, and greed.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I remember some years back when "Carvin" Marvin Runyon was appointed the Postmaster General of the United States. It was a big change and everyone was scared. In his first meeting at this huge wooden table at L'fant Plaze with a huge amount of upper management there, his first words were, "if you don't touch the mail, you're gone" and he got up and left. In the next three months just about everyone that was high upper echelon personnel were let go.. Of course labor got a huge kick out of that So for four really good years Labor produced well above average because they were left alone and when they weren't left alone they were told that if they couldn't get along with labor someone would replace them that could. However after he retired a bunch of the let go managers filed suit to get their jobs back. As their jobs had been done away with, something else had to be given them. So, whenever a Postmaster job became open one of these let go people would be given that job even though they didn't have a clue as to how to perform it.. So now, it's worse than it's ever been as far as labor relations

and work production goes. This helps me understand how some of these private companies

work when they start awarding the multi-dollar bonuses that I've heard about here tonight. It's a shame..



Uncle Billy

 

[Paul P]

I love this board!



After having worked for 2 large software companies and just laid off from the last (great season to be laid off by the way), I have very little interest in doing it again. They were both the same in all the ways discussed above. When working for a large company, there is too much noise and wasted effort. The work culture has changed dramatically in the last 10 years with jobs going over seas, C level a%*&^oles making crazy money, and "doing more with less" while not even getting COL raises. I have had opportunities cross my path which were typically jobs I would have been very excited about but they have all been for large companies. I'm done with it ... I hope. My current plan is to start my own business working as an individual consultant and hopefully that will allow me to put food on the table. I can do the same job working for myself, charge half the rate that my former employer does, and make at least what I did at that company. There is so much overhead in those companies to cover the headcount that adds little value, i.e. C-level people and mgrs.



Anybody need a good design automation consultant? ... LOL

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Jeez...WTF is wrong with everybody!

Marty...IT WAS A JOKE!

And BTW...unless you been RIF'd and under safe pay...the NSPS doesn't help someone like me! I haven't had a full COLA since 1995 when I was RIF'd:angry:

But, I ain't too far off either! Wright Patterson is NOT the same as any other base,,,PERIOD! You don't have 90% civilian at other bases.

And everybody here needs to quit being so defensive about everything!

 

[Mini]

This is just a guess but I would estimate our civilian workforce here at TARDEC to be in excess of 90%....but we REALLY arent a base so to speak.

 

[Marty Klein]

Well now, your comment sounded like that I've heard from folks who didn't quite understand NSPS pay system and you didn't use one "I'm joking" icon. No, working under "save" pay is different, but you didn't mention that before; I will have to check on the COLA and "save pay" piece; that is an interesting piece as COLA is supposed to be separate and distinct [COLA is also different by service I believe]. COLA may or may not occur under NSPS, but it is generally replaced by an employee's share amount under NSPS annual payout. No, NSPS doesn't do much for someone who has been RIF'd, but like you say if a person gets bumped down in the public sector, they do get to "save pay" which may not happen in the private sector.



I'm not defensive on this issue. However, I do find it interesting how the government gets blamed for everything when most comments on an issue like this address items that could be rectified by folks other than the government or have actually been caused by someone other than US.



I do think there are a lot of places with 90+% civilian work forces; not sure they are as big as WP [not sure how big WP is workforce-wise; is it even a real base any more?].

 

[TOMMY RICH]

It's "safe pay" and you get it indefinitely.

 

[Greg Meyer]

As a spokesperson for the unknown "goats"... On behalf of the goats I resent the implication that any goat would have sex with a politician...anywhere...

 

[TrepMan]

LMAO at meyer!! "As a spokesperson for the unknown "goats"... "!!!!



Tee - Whats COLA? I think it stands for Cost Of Living Adjustment? If so, in private industry there isn't any such thing. these days most companies don't provide any raises yearly except for the top top performers, and then its like 1-2% which doesn't cover the cost of healthcare increases year-2-year, let alone gas...



I know i'll see the gas charges hit high in Oct when I move back and buy a tow vehicle, and family trips to the inlaws.



Trep

 

[Michael Meier]

GM says they have enough "cash" to hold out through 2008 and the share price has dropped to $1.79 a share (was $9.87 last year same time). If you think they are going to make it, then you better grab some cheap seats now. If they file then all bets are off.....

 

[JR F]

Get those Cameros out there to compete with the others.My buddy just bought a dodge..It's bad everywhere Mac....I saw GM leave here, I never thought I would see that In my lifetime....We were going under until they let us build a casino...Now everyone Is broke but happy....JR

 

[Bill McElroy]

Well,..after a nice relaxing week off,....it was GREAT to get *****-slapped back to reality with THIS headline,.....





GM mulling thousands of job cuts, sale of brands: report

(Reuters) - General Motors Corp is planning to cut thousands of white-collar jobs and is considering whether it should sell or stop production of more of its brands, The Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiar with the matter.

Both moves are part of a broader re-evaluation of the company's strategy and of its ability to meet an internal projection of returning to profitability in 2010, the people told the paper.

The job cuts are likely to be approved when GM's board of directors meets in early August, the people said. The reductions would be in addition to earlier announced cuts. Management may also present the board with options for raising additional cash, they told the paper.

The board may also hear management's latest thoughts on whether GM should trim the number of brands it offers in the United States, the people told the paper.

All but the Cadillac and Chevrolet brands, which GM considers core to its business, are undergoing close scrutiny, some other people told the paper.

In the past few years, as GM has run up massive losses, some board members and some executives have on occasion raised questions about its plethora of brands, only to be rebuffed by Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.

GM has put its Hummer brand up for sale to prospective buyers thought to include Mahindra & Mahindra , but the SUV brand is expected to fetch far less than $1 billion in any sale.

The company, hit by rising oil and raw material prices, the credit crunch and the housing downturn, will need to raise as much as $15 billion in cash to shore up liquidity and bankruptcy is "not impossible" if the U.S. auto market continues to slump, Merrill Lynch had said last week.

U.S. auto sales plunged in June to a 15-year low.

Although GM clung on to its top spot in the American market, some analysts have raised concerns over the financial state of the firm, whose shares fell to a 54-year low earlier this month.

GM could not be immediately reached for comment.

(Reporting by Pratish Narayanan in Bangalore; Editing by Kim Coghill)

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Mac - Don't you love it when the information is reported from "Bangalore". They don't even have the decency to have it come from within the US.

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL.....might as well come from there,...all of our jobs are over there!!! (and it looks like even more will be going over there!!! BTW--I had to call the help desk this a.m. for a password reset,....guess where the call went!?.....you got it!!)



We can't even get someone in our own COUNTRY, let alone same STATE, CITY or even BUILDING to click a few buttons for us.........it's ridiculous!!:angry:



And then Mgt whines about poor sales?!!!....."WTF?!...HELLOOO!!!! You idiot's outsourced all the jobs and laid off all the folks who WERE BUYING your stuff!!!"......MORONS!!