Best Auto Co. "Rebuttle" I've ever read!!

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Bill McElroy

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At Witz' End: What Auto CEOs Should Have Said

12-01-2008

http://www.autobloggreen.com/bloggers/gary-witzenburg/http://www.autobloggreen.com/bloggers/gary-witzenburg/Shouldn't those auto/government hearings have been reversed?



Did it occur to anyone else that those oh-so-painful auto CEO/government hearings should have been the other way around?



Instead of the heads of America's three remaining automakers groveling, begging and enduring live public floggings trying to sell their case for government loans to get them past the global economic crisis and credit freeze that government greed, corruption and incompetence has created, shouldn't they have been vein-popping outraged and angry? Shouldn't they have pointed accusatory fingers at that sorry collection of arrogant, auto-ignorant Senators and Congressmen who got them into this mess and demanded their assistance?



Shouldn't they have looked those pompous public-trough pinheads straight in the face and demanded to know why investment firms, banks and big insurance get hundreds of billions of taxpayer bailout dollars no questions asked while what's left of America's once-mighty manufacturing muscle begs for loans totaling 1/28 of that initial $700 billion Wall Street bailout? Where were the public humiliation hearings and newly viable business plans for those guys?



Here is what I'll bet those long-suffering auto CEOs wanted to say, but couldn't:



"You ignorant morons! How dare you accuse us of building cars nobody wants? We sold 8.5 million vehicles in the US last year and millions more around the world. GM still handily outsells Toyota here, Ford outsells Honda and Nissan, and Chrysler sells more than Nissan and Hyundai combined. How many of our new cars have you driven lately? How many quality surveys and plant productivity reports have you reviewed? Have you bothered to check your own EPA's fuel economy ratings?



"Have you paid any attention in the last several years as we've turned our companies upside down, closed dozens of plants, shed hundreds of thousands of hard-working people who did nothing to deserve it, canceled slow-selling models and spent billions of hard-earned dollars redesigning the rest? Are you idiots even aware that we renegotiated our union contracts last year to make our US labor and health-care costs fully competitive by 2010?



"Would you recognize a good business plan if one smacked you upside the head? Have any of you ever run a business, made a business decision or even held a real job? Is there any more dysfunctional organization on the planet, any that more desperately needs a new business plan, than the US Congress? Let's compare our public approval ratings to yours.



"You scold us for using private aircraft? We run global companies flying people, parts and equipment all over the world every day. We use private planes for security and productivity and cost savings over commercial alternatives. If it were not cost effective, we would not do it, and we've been doing a lot less of it lately. Tell us, Ms. Pelosi, how much does that big private 757-200 of yours cost taxpayers to fly you home and back between your tough 3-day weeks?



"For decades, your national energy policy has been summed up by two words: 'cheap gas.' Now you want to punish us for building the big, capable, comfortable vehicles Americans wanted to take advantage of that policy...and for not building millions more smaller, more fuel-efficient cars that, until recently, almost no one wanted, and that we can't make a buck on if we build them here thanks to the high business costs you've imposed upon us through the years.



"You have blocked every avenue of domestic exploration and construction that could lead to eventual energy independence, preferring instead to pump hundreds of billions of dollars overseas to purchase the energy Americans need, much of it from countries that are not our friends. You have piled billions of dollars of unrecoverable costs on us with excessive taxation, overkill regulation and relentless litigation that our off-shore competitors do not have to bear. Then you have rolled out the red carpet to predatory, low-cost foreign competitors who come here to take our market and pump hundreds of millions more dollars out of this country.



"Is there any other country fortunate enough to have an automotive industry that does not support, protect and nourish it in every possible way? We are the only nation on earth too blind and stupid to recognize and treasure the enormous economic and national security advantages of having its own healthy, prosperous auto industry and manufacturing base.



"Now you have passed an enormously expensive new regulation requiring 40 percent higher corporate average fuel economy in hopes of someday reducing the less than 0.2 percent of global human-sourced CO2 attributable to US light vehicles. That will cost us an estimated $100 billion, and even if you believe that is really worth doing at such a cost, where are we going to get that kind of money? Talk about unfunded mandates!



"With recent resizings and restructurings and our new labor contracts, we were well on our ways to full financial competitiveness and profitability. We could have survived and the sudden $4 gas explosion - not our fault - that shifted buyer demand overnight from larger, more profitable vehicles to small unprofitable ones. We have millions of highly desirable, much more fuel-efficient small cars and engines in the pipeline for 2010 and beyond.



"Then came your mortgage meltdown and fast-frozen credit crisis, which no one in this credit-driven business can survive unaided for long: not us, not our suppliers, not our many thousands of independent dealers, not even our most cash-rich foreign competitors. They, too, are asking their governments for assistance. Will they get it? Of course! No other nation will stand idly by and watch its auto industry die.



"There was no end of election rhetoric about creating new jobs. How about saving several million of the ones we have? Can any of you begin to understand how this industry is a huge, fragile, interdependent house of cards? If GM should fail, or declare Chapter 11, so will most of its 3,690 suppliers, beginning with the 2,000 in the US that operate 4,550 facilities in 46 states. Since most also supply key components to everyone else, that will bring down all of us, including US transplant production. Don't believe us? Ask Toyota.



"Vehicle assembly, engine, transmission and parts plants nationwide will shut down. Have you seen a plant town whose plant has died? It's a jobless ghost town whose out-of-work residents, including owners and employees of the small businesses that depended on plant workers' incomes, can't afford to move because their homes
 
Mac,

Thanks for sharing that, i liked it. The writer pretty much sums it up well.



The thing that angers me about this whole deal is the government has no issues lending banks and other financial institutions upwards of 700 billion but they wont do it for the auto industry. I also read that a majority of americans oppose these loans to the auto makers too. They are just as dumb as the government IMHO. If these idiots took a look back at history its our industrial might that made us the economic power in the world that we were and these morons seem content to just watch industry die along with our country it seems. All the while bailing out the banks that put us in this mess to begin with. It seems like these "leaders" are not concerned with the people of this country and are looking out for thier wallets. It really makes me angry.
 
The Gov would get their money back from the Big 3 but, will they from the crooks at AIG?
 
It won't matter TEE.....if the Big 3 go down.....we'll have MASSIVE world-wide unemployment....we'll be in a global depression before the ice melts!!:angry::(



The worst will be right here in the USA!!! (Except for congress...they'll get paid regardless!!)
 
Thanks for sharing the rebuttal Mac; a "rebuttle" is what happens when a person re-gains weight previously lost in that area [:wacko::lol::wacko:].



My question is this--why didn't those guys have the courage to say that stuff?
 
Marty.....You can bet everyone of them was "thinkin' it" and WANTED To,....but when you're asking your Dad for a "loan",...probably not a good idea to call him a DUMBASS first!! LOL:rolleyes:
 
sorry...double post!!



Just heard that they're rippin' the CEO's to shred's again!!...But nary a SINGLE ? every posed to the banker's FIRST!!! Heck...they didn't even have to face Congress!!! What a joke!!
 
Well, I guess one way to look at it is to look to the future and the other way is to harp about the past. Congress likes harping.



Except that it would cause harm to the innocent, the CEO's should take out their cell phones and instruct the rear det commanders to "shut it all down." Give Congress a visible look at the impact.



Hang on Mac, it looks like you're in for a bumpy ride.



That said, I went into the Chrysler dealer the other night to look at a van for Janet. I parked by the dealership and walked all the way across the lot to look at the vans--all of it under the watchful eyes of 5 salesmen. As I returned to my vehicle, one of them came out and wanted to talk to me. I wondered aloud if they really needed to sell cars.
 
I just don't understand the blatant IGNORANCE and Hypocracy of our Congress....it's not only disheartening....it's just plain SCARY!!..and Sen. Shelby!!??....Ohhh my God,..what a jackA$$....and "WE the people" of the USA have to rely on those morons for our National "security"?



OMG,..I need even MORE ammo NOW!!!!!:blink:



 
It was stated during the meeting yesterday (I think it was Dodd) that the panel needed to ask the tough questions that they are because they didnt for the Financials. I think they should call them back in for a grilling too.



Shelby is a fool. Looked like a bigger tool and even his peers on the panel were mocking him when he asked in regards to the Exec's driving to DC if "They had a driver", "Did they plan on driving home".....other panel members (who were off camera) jokingly asked "if they stopped for lunch" and "what did they eat".



Like any of that has anything to do with saving the American economy.



Cut em a check out of the 700 billion they are printing for the financials and get these guys over the hump!!!



Oh one more thing, that fella from the economics website really captured their attention. I guess after Congress relaized that didnt know SQUAT about the how, when and wheres about the Auto Industry, they needed an "unbiased" expert there to "help" them see the light.



 
Ironic isn't it?? They don't know SQUAT about the how's, when and where's of the mortgage and insurance industries either or we wouldn't even be in this whole mess!!!



BTW,....the majority of the Congress and Senate member's all have foreign branded limo's and SUV's that they ride around in.....NIIIIICE aye? Nothing like our own Leader's not even supporting home-built products. (Except for Pelosi's private Boeing 727-200, that she's shuttled back and forth to DC in......for her strenuous 3 day work weeks!!) :angry::angry:



 
Great info Jim!! Thanks for posting!! Mini and I had lunch together today and we talked about this mess.....and we were listening to the hearings on the same radio station on our way back to work....had to laugh a couple times,....I'd look over and see him in his truck just shaking his head. That Barney Frank is a real piece of work!!:wacko::rolleyes:



On a side note,....I've never been a huge UAW fan,(based soley on what I've seen and been thru over my 26yrs here) but I really have to applaud Ron Gettlefinger this time!!,..he's doing a great job with his facts and figures and the way their membership is really working with all 3 company's to try and get this approved...he's proving to be a genuine play maker and an HONEST man!! If I ever see him in public...I think I'd try and make it a point to walk up and THANK HIM for his efforts..he's going above and beyond to try and save this industry along with the 3 CEO's.....when this is all said and done, nobody's going to be able to say the UAW didn't do their part!! ;)
 
This whole thing just fries my *ss .... AIG & Fanny Mae has asked and received far more money than the BIG 3 has asked for. If the BIG 3 go down, the morons in Washington have no clue of the snowball affect it will have.



A lot of our customers buy machines that make parts for the BIG 3, American Axel being just one, Delphi another



I say we layoff some of the morons in Washington and see how they like it!!





"I am sorry Mr. Congressman but we have to let you go because, we just can
 
Shouldn't they have pointed accusatory fingers at that sorry collection of arrogant, auto-ignorant Senators and Congressmen who got them into this mess and demanded their assistance?



1. They are talking to YOUR elected officals!! (That includes Frank's)

2. Put the bailout to a vote with the general public. I believe the last poll by CNN it was 60% no - 30% yes - 10% undecided (Californian's???):)



Gary Witzenburg is another Detroit puppet that also wants to be able to stop and buy milk on the way home without a flack vest. He wrote what he needed to and that will keep the boys from 8 mile on that side of the tracks and not looking for him.:D

 
"Detroit Puppet"?!....Are you kidding me?? So anybody who understands the implications of a auto company meltdown and it's catastrophic domino affect on our economy is a Detroit "puppet"?? C'mon Mike...you ARE smarter than that!!



Based on those figures it looks like 70% of the US population is as stupid as the congress!! Put it to a vote,....let the companies fail....put us in a global depression before spring. Then what?? You want to see crime, robberies, murders, assaults, carjackings, etc. etc. and massive world-wide unemployment go thru the roof?? What's that going to accomplish?? That'll teach those greedy a-holes in Detroit aye!!



Screw the public vote,....did we have any say at all regarding the BILLIONS Congress GAVE to Wall St. and AIG?? Hell NO!! Why should the public have any say over who get's "LOANS"?? "Bailouts" are freebies,...no strings attached, no accountability, no disclosure of restructuring plans and no payback required,...THAT should be voted on!!

I sure wish I could've gotten a Gov't "Bailout" for my house instead of a loan......Man, I'd have one helluva nice boat floatin' somewhere!! The media needs to QUIT calling this a BAILOUT...why do they keep saying that when the Big 3 are asking for LOANS?? GM, Ford and Chrysler are going to have to pay that $$ back.........Wall St. and AIG don't owe the gov't OR Taxpayers a freakin' nickle in paybcks!! They're throwing parties and handing out bonuses to their Execs!! NO public outrage over that!!!! Why not?? But man alive...you ask the gov't for a loan and you gotta kiss Congressional hiney and face public outrage........I guess if we are that stupid as a nation....then we deserve to pay the ultimate price. But, maybe Obama will save us all....he promised he would, and he won't be able to just say "present" either...he's going to have to make a REAL Decision for the first time in his political life....and the USA get's to be HIS puppet!!:(:eek::blink:





 
I stated before we should vote them all out and start over. Guess I will just stock up and wait for the fall out. Some think it's a joke, some just don't understand. If the big 3 fail world wide? Get ready for the worst.



BF
 
Becasue, the Goverment is not supposed to be in a position of a bank. If they have to step in, then they are bailing someone out.



Sorry, but not buying all of this 'Global Depression' because a portion of the US Auto Mfg. Capability might have to go bankrupt and re-organize. It would certainly not be good, but simply sending them money because they are in trouble, doesn't seem to be the sensible thing to me - for the money they want is NOT going to fix the bigger problem.



Regardless, certainly appears that Nancy Pelosi finally woke up to the fact that the President backs the package being talked about, as long as it comes from the money already allocated to the car companies in a previous bill.



They (Congress) will do something, probably next week. If they do, the Big 3 had better FIX the problem, and fast.



On another note, that will make everyone just PiXXXng mad. The EDS/HP Merger was of course in large part due to the CEO of EDS pushing the deal. His package - about 70mm or so, if he doesn't stay with EDS. They announced on Friday, that he is retiring on 12/31 - which everyone expected. He takes his $70mm or so, while 24,000 of us get axed.



Tex
 


Mac I'm not saying that anyone who "claims" to understand the auto issue is a Detroit puppet. This was Witzenburg who lives there and writes for all the US auto magazines and he is subject to manipulation by those who put food on his plate just like the rest of us.



The airline industry did all the revamp of its internal mess without any help? The big 3 there have about equal dollars on the line as auto industry, but not the downstream effects of failure. They fired some, combined some, cut pay on all, and the rest were drinking/flying the plane and missed all of it??:lol::lol::lol: Maybe that's the answer? Combine the Big 3 and add some foreign interest to boot? I want a 4X4 Tundra long bed, crew cab, with a Power Stroke and Allison trans/transfer case!:)



My position remains. Give the auto industry the loans because we do not want to see what will happen downstream if we don't. Put the GAO (Govt. Accounting Office) inside the industry for monitoring of the management and repayment of our funds. (They are doing this with the mortgage loan and it does have to be re-paid) The unions can go over in the corner and "do themselves" for a change so this can get fixed. This whole US auto industry will need disbanded/diluted to the point that we, the general public, are never put in a position of being a hostage to a set of companies that can have this type of effect on our economy. Not quite sure how to do that, but someone will figure it out?



 
Here's another point (saw discussed this morning) that needs to be considered.



Why give the Exec's/Management of the Big 3 some $34B (or the $15B they are now talking about) to manage - when they 'managed themselves into this mess' in the first place.



I'm in the same opinion as mike above: The Airline Industry (which is just as important - maybe more important) were not bailed out. They had to figure out how to survive, even if it meant mergers and/or bankruptcy.



Tex
 
The Airline Co's and their suppliers "roots" into the rest of the economy aren't even close to wide spread affects the auto co's have. Apples to oranges fellas. The last time I looked up at the sky....I don't recall seeing anywhere near as many planes as I see "cars and trucks" on the roads. We build more cars during the morning in one day at one plant, than Boeing builds in a year!



Tex,...the reason the auto co's are in this predicament is becase of the financial market meltdown and 4.00/gal gas that hit us over-nite thru wall st, stock market and oil company gouging. People were buying cars and trucks with home equity loans and readily available "credit" that is no longer available. The Auto Company execs didn't have ANYTHING to do with that!! Congressional mis-management and rediculous lending practices (sub-prime lending that they encouraged) had EVERYTHING to do with it!! Now gas is back to less than $2.00 gal and oil is less than $50.00/barrel.......so why are the banks sitting on the $$$ that congress gave them??? Why is it still so hard for most people to get a loan?? People are not spending what they do have saved, because nobody knows if they'll be employed next week!! That sure as hell isn't the Auto Co's fault!!
 
You cannot compare autos to airlines. Autos are manufacturing, airlines are service. There is no tangible product from airlines, only the service to get you from point a to point b.
 
So why bail out the banks who made the bad loans to people that they knew could not pay them back? Interest only loans to people that could not even make a down payment? Credit cards to people that have proved in the past they are a bad risk? Greed, it's going to get worse before it gets better and you voted for that.



BF
 
Exactly Bruce, and they did it pretty much no questions asked...



Mini im sure your usiing the term "service" loosley when it comes to the airlines. lol
 
Mac,

I have some questions on this??

Reason 1

the reason the auto co's are in this predicament is becase of the financial market meltdown and 4.00/gal gas that hit us over-nite thru wall st, stock market and oil company gouging.

Reason 2

Congressional mis-management and rediculous lending practices (sub-prime lending that they encouraged) had EVERYTHING to do with it!!

Reason 3

People are not spending what they do have saved, because nobody knows if they'll be employed next week!!

I guess the auto industry had nothing to do with it's own demise?
 
Sure they did.....but not to the extent that caused them to need to borrow this kind of money this fast.....if the economy hadn't taken a dump so quickly, we had the plans in place 2 yrs ago to weather a mild storm......but not the economic tsunami that piss-poor congressional policies and wall st. practices snow-balled into, over the last 12-18mos. Do you really think the Auto Co's would intentionally create a situation where people couldn't get credit to buy cars or the value of their homes would plummet??..WTF?!



But who cares......It looks like I'm in the 30% of people who don't really want to deal with the effects of a depression if they're allowed to fail...and unfortunately I'm outvoted,..but maybe I'm just a little biased too....my familys livelihood depends on a healthy auto industry...and regardless of what people may "think"...unless you're a mortician...or a "going out of business" sign maker.....YOURS does to!! Anyway,..you know how I feel now and my reasons are justified....we could nit-pick this topic to death, but I'm not going to change my opinion.....this country NEEDS a healthy manufacturing base.....and without a strong Auto sector...we WON'T have it!!



Carry on..

Mac



BTW,..Here's an opinion that sounds familiar..;)



Detroit is America's Engine

Detroit Free Press

By Rochelle Riley

Dec. 5, 2008



So I'm sitting and watching Jay Leno interview NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams. And the conversation turned to cars.



Leno talked about his Corvette ZR1 and Williams talked about his Mustang GT.



"I enjoy a good full throated American automobile," Williams said, adding that he's got a Jeep Cherokee in the driveway because his garage is too full to hold both cars.



When Leno asked him about whether the automakers should get a bailout, his answer was exquisite in its simplicity:



"I don't know that we can afford to let these guys fail," he said.



"Just Chrysler.. 30 million Americans have a Chrysler product in their driveway, The day Chrysler is allowed to fail, they look at their car as having a little less value. Where are they going to get parts and service? What happens to the employees at the local dealership? What happens to the employees of the people who make the tires, drive the cars to the dealership, all of that
 
It's gonna get worse before it gets better I'm afraid:unsure:
 
I certainly know, having been working in and around the Detroit area for the past 15 months, that there are plenty of good solid people up there that deserve a good job. However, it's really a complicated problem.



Therefore, for the most part, I'll leave it at this:



I hope that the Big 3 can continue to go forward, and get their problems straightened out.



This is going to be the final word from me on this; for I'm now going to simply sit on the sidelines regarding this discussion moving forward. Mostly out of respect for my friends in and around the auto industry (both on this board and others that I know up there).



Tex
 
I'd rather see the big three get loans than the monetary shower Barney Frank's boyfriend and cronies who thought they could turn a buck by selling pkg.'s of mortgages made to people who have no way or desire to repay them as a "good investment vehicle". Just my opinion and worth the proverbial paper its written on. :lol:
 

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