Bump Board Question...

[Greg Meyer]

Okay... you get to answer a nagging question for me (someone asked me and now I am asking here)...



You are the "man" at the bumpboard... An angler hands you a sack of fish and one looks close so you measure it and it is (with a pinched tail) on your "Judge" a teensie bit short... so the angler asks you to flip it over... you do and now its a teensie bit over...



Is it a legal fish? So that for "legal" fish you measure the long side? What about a "slot"... do you count the long or short side or do you count the "short" side at the short end of the slot and the long side on the long end of the slot... In other words do you adopt a rule interpretation that says legal on any side is legal or do you adopt a rule that says ... illegal on any side is illegal... or something else... measuring "long" side always... What should the rule be?

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

I actually never knew that one side was longer than the other, in paper T's I have been in, we always move the tail back and forth to see the longest length.



Is one side really longer?

 

[Jim B]

My club has a rule that says the fish must be placed nose first on the board with the mouth closed and hte tail in its natural position( ie not pinched) when measuring. In that case the fish would be short and whatever penalties we have in place would apply.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

Not to steal Greg's post but to add to it, what do you consider a dead or really the question is a dying fish, seen a lot of this lately.

 

[Jim B]

Chris, in my club we concider a dead fish one that shows zero signs of life like breathing, movement. Normally its pretty easy to spot a dead one becase they discolor and get stiff.



or in my case really make the livewell smell bad.....

 

[Greg Meyer]

Jim,



Turning the fish over still keeps the nose on one end... just places the dorsal fin up or down... And, walleye tourney rules usually say "pinched tail"... Interesting differences



Chris... I have seen easily over an 1/8 of an inch difference... We, and fish, are sort of symmetrical... but not perfectly so... so a "skinnier" side will be longer.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

LOL @ JimB, what about the ones that are kinda sideways then go striaght then knida lean a little, you know what I mean, are they considered OK in your club. One club I am in makes you dump your fish in a basin for all to review before putting in the official weigh in bag/basket, the other club is more on the honor system.



On a side note, I have noticed the glass boats keep the water in the livewell much cooler in T's.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

Greg, I'm gonna have to check that out, do you always dip your golden rule before using the board? I forget to do that alot, bad habit.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Weighmasters call.... As long as he can get the fish to measure.. It's legal

Alot of rules don't allow swinging the tail, pinchings ok though..



Another thing... you may want to check your board with his

The new machined boards are dead on with one another... but the older STAMPED Golden Rules can be as much as an eight of an inch off!!!!!

KB

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

KB, I purchased a Golden Rule this year, is that a new machined one?

 

[Greg Meyer]

Most walleye tournaments use "The Judge"... I have not experienced any discrepancies between my "judge" and the official ones... And, I check that out... It's why I bought a Judge last year. My Golden rule measured a little long maybe a 1/32nd all the way down the line...

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

We always pinch the tail and measure whichever side is longer. We follow the wardens policy of making the fish as long as possible. For a slot, if you can make the fish in the slot it is illegal and if you can make the fish over the slot it is OK.



CJL - I would say that 15 - 20% of the fish will measure noticeably longer on one side than the other.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

I will have to check that out, I guess a fish with a full belly may impact the length if its bulging more on side, I guess that could change the angle ever slightly

 

[Greg Meyer]

Again, most walleye tournaments have a "swim upright" in the bump tank rule... Fish are not judged on "alive", but rather on "releaseable"... That can get subjective... but so can alive... swim upright has a certain consistency to it... but "upright" can get "iffy" with some fish...

 

[Greg Meyer]

Velcro,



So you measure "longest" side to determine... Oh, and then there is the slot issue... is the slot 18-24" any fish 18 and over and 24 and under... or is a 24" fish okay?

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

Greg, that's the reason I ask, I have seen it get a little funny, when people argue over a dying fish, it seems to always be the same guy bringing in "iffy" fish. I never use additives in my livewell, but I almost always use ice and recirc.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

LOL, glad I don't fish Eye T's, is the slot to keep the breeders unharmed?

 

[Texas Transplant]

It's a good fish. The longest it measure's from nose to tail, is what counts. In short, if you can get it to measure 'once', that is all that it takes.



We had someone bring two to the scale this weekend, that were very, very close. One made it, the other didn't.



In some of the bigger tourneys/trails, if you bring a short fish, you lose the fish and your biggest fish also. Really makes someone think about whether to bring a close one or not.



Tex

 

[Greg Meyer]

Slot limits get put in place for two or three reasons... Optimum breeding size is one... another is to encourage keeping small fish if the population is expanding too fast... Also depends on whether there is natural reproduction or only stocked fish... And, finally, slots get put on to promote trophy fish... For instance... Chain of Lakes in Illinois... 14" minimum slot of 18 to 26" and only one fish over 26 allowed and two between 14 and 18... You catch a lot of 13 1nd 19" fish... They are protecting two good year classes for future great fishing

 

[Greg Meyer]

And, now factor in the known reality that the fish do in fact shrink in the livewell under some circumstances... And, will always shrink when put on ice.... (See this current issue of In-Fisherman). Be very careful with the common crappie practice of draining the livewell and filling it with ice onto the live fish... They will shrink and if there is a minimum you can lose up to an 1/8th of an inch... For crappie that I know I am going to keep I add 1/4" to the minimum if I intend to ice them...

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

KB, Yes mine is the "Golden Rule" Gator Grip, from BPS, I seen the Bassmaster one you are talking about, it's very nice looking and looks machined vs. stamped, I need to use the Bigger "Golden Rule" Gator grip for Paper T's because it measures in smaller increments for the paper T's. I beleive we go to 1/4" incriments in measuring. Those paper T's count towards the Six Man team in my club.



On a side note, I have rubbed a white crayon into the stamped indents in my golden rule and then rubbed off the excess, it makes it easier to read the numbers and lines.

 

[Jim B]

Greg, i see what you mean. Our club board is like 4 inches wide and any fish that would be even close to the 12" limit the board is wider then the tail, if any part of the tail is over the 12" line its legal. On our board i dont think flipping the fish would make any difference.



Chris, the fish like you describe are concidered "alive" my my club and in my local federation. Personally i think that dieing fish should be penalized too but i think it would ever fly. I have noticed like you that its always the same guys that bring in the dead/iffy ones. The bottom line is people need to take better care of thier fish.



Also Chris, try the rejuivnade livewell treatment. That stuff really works well. At my clulb t last sat there were a lot of fish that didnt have any spunk at the scales( i think guys just put them in the well and forgot about them because it wasnt hot, i plan to speak my mind on that at my next meeting) and after they were in my well in the rejuvinade for about 10 min they really had gotten some spunk back when i released them.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

JimB, I will try that, I also heard a certain salt works very well, NO B/S but my fish always jump out of the viewing tank and start swimming on the ground, a lot of energy left in them.



I also noticed that my Ranger's livewell's keep the water very cool in the direct sunlight, maybe it's the glass construction?



JimB, the "iffy" fish always seem to be belly up or don't leave the drop area in the water after weigh in. I guess there is no exact science for this.



Last year we had a guy keep his fish in a clear plastic basin in the direct sunlight for the entire T, and he then tried to weigh in the fish!!!!!!!!!!!:blink:







Needless to say he was DQ'd and not given his money back for the T. He had dead fish again this year.



His livewell was never checked out because he was late and launched a minute before the T started.



Oh, in that club you are only penalized 4oz. for a dead fish.

 

[Jim B]

Chris,

My fish are always healthy and are really frisky at the weigh in. I do take care of my fish, areate them all day, ice, chemical, change the water etc. I also plug my wells on rough rides to keep the water in them, i have seen boats that loose over half the water on a rough run. The water loss can be deadly in boats with smaller livewells. My nitro holds 35 gallons so there is plenty of water for the fish. And i make sure the wells are clean at all times between tournaments. My fish are always healthy and frisky when they come out( with one recent exception), i have seen too many times when they are not or dieing from other guys or when i have fished as a non boater.



My club is 4oz too just like B.A.S.S, i personally think it needs to be stiffer to force people to take better care of thier fish.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

Jim, you keep your livewell on constant?

 

[Jim B]

Yea i run the recirc all day on constant( i upgraded my battery so i can) and i run the fill pump off and on to change the water.

 

[Steve Rizza]

Interesting info on measuring both sides.



At the Walleye Tourney I fished this spring,we had 2 fish that were 14 15/16 inches that we reluctently tossed back.

They still wouldn't have put us into the money, but next time I know to flip em' over and measure again.

Might be the difference between winning a few bucks,or finishing out of the money.



Steve

 

[Kevin Kern]

If you measured a fish in it's natural "free state" it's tail would not touch the board you measure them on, the tail would be raised off the board by 1/2 it's thickness and on center with the rest of it's body. You actually shorten the fish when you pull the tail down to the board. The broader the girth of the fish the more difference there could be, especially if the girth was shifted onto one side (not symmetrical) more than the other. I have seen almost a 1/4" difference in measuring a fish from one side to the other. I don't suppose any of you guys "pull" on their lower jaws any? I don't know if any of you guys work in areas where height gages and surface plates are available, however, if you do you can have your measuring board checked against a height gage, you could even have it scribed in 1/4" increments if you wanted. Make sure the that the end of the board where you put the lips of the fish is perpendicular (90 degrees), any variation away from 90 degrees will change the length of the fish.

 

[David Munaretto]

Nearly all fish are naturally longer on one side than on the other... SO you tournament fisherman who bump a fish that is a squeeker, TURN IT OVER, and pray that you got the short side the first time. Typically you'll see a 1/8 to 1/4 inch difference, which is substantial.



As to the original question, all that matters is that you get the fish to bump over the limit. The warden doesn't care which side, only that the fish is legal. If you can demonstrate that the fish is within the legal limit, you are golden.



The REAL question is... if you wanted to poach short fish, what would stop you from creating your own bump board, shortening the measurements 1/8" per inch, and then showing the ranger on THAT if pulled over...



To quote the Church Lady, "Talk amongst yourselves"....



David

 

[Greg Meyer]

Dave,



The gray area and confusion arises over the warden's interpretation of "short" and the effects of slot limits... Believe me, this is not a hard and fast thing when it comes to fish that measure differently on one side and the other. Some warden's say it is always "longest"... some say "any way legal" and others say "any way illegal". And, in Illinois the DNR says that it is up to each warden as to how to interpret the length of a fish that measures differently on each side. (as a "footnote", the lady that I was referred to in the enforcement office almost did not believe me when I stated that a fish could measure differently on each of two sides, so I have to wonder how reliable her comments were).

 

[Texas Transplant]

No penalty was assessed, as far as I could tell.



Tex

 

[Mini]

I measured and weighed fish for the past three years in the Michigan Federation. Anyway you can make it go as long as the mouth is closed and against the end of the board the fish is good. Yes some are longer on one side than the other....also when fishing and you measure a fish just after it was caught it will be a tad shorter due to lactic acid build up. Let the fish relax for a few (catch and release livewell additive helps too) and it should get to be about an 1/8" longer. This works really well with smallmouth.



Most of the time I just toss em, but in a big tourney a 13 7/8" fish goes in the box because I know in two hours I can get it to measure. That is IF it hasnt been culled by then



Mini

 

[Greg Meyer]

Mini... do you know the Michigan "official" policy... if it measures legal (on one side, but not the other)is it legal... or if it measures illegal (on one side but not the other) its illegal or is it always the longest measurement or the shortest? The big issue is handling slot fish...