Tournament Opinion(s) Please

[Bill Hamilton]

I would like to get opinions on fishing tournaments. I had my first one of the year on Saturday and during our meeting on Friday night I find that there are three (3) pros fishing the TX as well as two (2) fishing guides from the lake we are fishing. This TX is supposed to be for amateurs (or so I thought!). Do you think this is fair or should something be said. While I understand "ringers" on particular waters I think guides and professionals in an amateur tournament are wrong.



Your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.



PS - I will not mention who the Pro's nor the guides are.



Thanks,



Bill

 

[mike mantha]

There is 2 different ways to look at it.



1. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best.



2. They cant feel too good about taking a bunch of amatures $$.



Around here we have a big lake that a father son team guide on and they win 99% of the tournaments there. But I will keep going back. For the simple reason that a win will be that much better to beat them.



Its just like fishing the B.A.S.S. opens, alot of the Elite guys fish them, and again I'll keep going back, like I said if you want to be the best you have to beat the best.



my .02



Mike

 

[Derek Chance]

I hear you. One thing I am doing this year is fishing USA Bassin circuit. It has a $60 entry fee which obviously pays less back, BUT the smaller payout keeps jackpotters away from fishing the tourneys. Still have great classics that give away boats.

 

[mike mantha]

USA Bassin' is registered with tournament rewards registered.



Won one last year and made out with almost a grand between 1st place, lunker, and rewards.

 

[Randy Walls]

My feeling is that if you are a guide on a particular body of water or are a registered professional they should not be allowed to fish in an "amateur only" tournament. Have I beat pros and guides, yes, but that is not the point. If I wanted to fish against those individuals I would sign up to complete against them. Yes we have lake monsters here that only fish certain bodies of water all year and enter every tournament on those lakes. They also win most of those tourney's or alt least finish very high. The only way I have seen this stopped is to have only those that fish the entire circuit be eligible to fish. That stops those that only show up at certain lakes, and the pros and guides that only fish certain tourneys and lakes. If they want to fish the whole circuit I am good with that. It evens out the field.



I have fished against Zona, Harrison, Randy VanDam, Mangus, etc.... locally for years. It does seem that the higher they get up on the food chain they do lose some of the local knowledge. I have beaten and lost to all of them. In fact, I lost the classic last year to Mangus, on his home lake, after he fished within the cutoff period and was still allowed to fish, even though there was some disagreements at the launch!!!! You can't avoid it so go out, do your research and do your best! When you do win, get your picture taken with them and make sure you have your first place check in your hand!!!



Randy!

 

[TritonGlenn]

How do you determine "amateur" status? And how do you prove it? If a person lives on that lake, are they allowed to fish? How about a retired guy who fishes every day of the week? What about someone who helped develop that lake? Someone who helped construct it way back in the day, and knows every hump, creek channel and sunken structure on it? If I fish as a Pro in one tournament, but come in dead last because I really suck at it, am I still considered a "pro" simply because I paid to fish as one at some point during my life?



The point about having to fish the entire circuit also doesn't exactly wash either in my book. What if someone can't afford to make 4 hour trips 8 times a year to far away lakes, but they have a lake right behind their house, so they can easily fish those other 4 tournaments? They can fish 1/3 of them, but can't afford to fish the others. Does that automatically disqualify them from fishing the "circuit"? Heck, they may not ever get to fish that lake except for those 4 tournaments, but you want to keep them off the circuit because they can't fish 100% of them? That doesn't really "even out the field". It would be a nice thought, but it just doesn't always add up. Yes, I'll concede that it does sometimes, but not always.



The real answer though is - do what you feel is best. I don't have a problem with it. The amateurs tend to take my money just as quickly as the pros do. :lol: I've fished with pros and amateurs alike. Every dog has it's day. I've won some and lost some. I fish because I enjoy it. When I start worrying about "who I'm fishing against", I find myself not having as much fun.



Fish hard - like you are in the Bass Masters Classic fishing for your one and only shot at a fishing career. But at the same time, also fish fun - like there is no tomorrow and you want to enjoy every day to it's fullest. If you are going to worry about who's taking your money, then you aren't really doing either of the above, and probably should reconsider tournament fishing.



Just my take on things. May not be right for others, but it's how I see it.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[fatrap]

Another view.

I fished tournaments for about 15 years ending in 1993.

When I started I bought every magazine, joined every organization when I even paid and went to Bass College taught by Hank Parker, Al Easson,Jimmy Huston etc. I pulled to Florida two or three times a year to fish the good stuff. I even honeymooned at Orange Lake Florida.

15 years later I Bought a new Nitro mostly with winnings. I was so burned out the boat sat for three years occassionaly being used for water activities ie tubing, skiing crusing.

Tournaments aren't for everyone. You fish in the rain, the snow, hot, cold sunny there are days you pray for weigh in to arrive and there's day's you can't wait for weigh in to arrive to show "your limit". There are days your the 66th boat out and all your good $#it has someone on it.

Then there's days when you go to the bank with a couple grand in your pocket, days when you just can't go wrong, people are coming up and asking you questions checking out your stuff and you feel great.

My advice start with a small club if they still have them. Most here have de-affliated with B.A.S.S. but club guys in my experience are pretty decent. Have fun and learn if it's for you great but don't let tournaments ruin a wonderful pastime.

I've gotten back into fishing again but I'd rather drift for crappies, troll for walleyes than see if I can make 10 cast a minute.

Good luck

fatrap

 

[Dan J.]

Once you fish as a pro, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation in almost every T. If you go out and wax 'em on your home lake, you're just taking advantage of the fella that "has to work all week". If you had bombed in the same T, you're a no-good so-and-so, because you're "supposed" to be a pro and on the water all the time, yada, yada, yada... :wacko: :lol:



I wouldn't be so concerned about fishing against a pro. You're actually fishing against the clock, not anybody else. All competitors should be given a fairly equal amount of time (when launch flight/weigh-in time determined) to match your knowledge and execution against the fish. People are going to excel at that through experience (time on the water) or just God-given talent. There are T's that expressly prohibit guides, pros, or even lake entries (just for living on the dad-gum lake!) to try and keep it closer to a novice level. They usually don't pay out much, but generally will keep the bigger local and national names out. Although, in my own opinion, it's kind of strange to want to enter a tourney with rules restricting the level of competition while every competitor is following the same rules and restrictions of the T, agreed upon (usually w/ a signature on entry) in advance. :huh: That seems kinda similar to my little boy's soccer league where everyone gets a trophy at the end of the season, so no one feels bad about not being the best.



No offense intended. Just my observations and .02's worth.

 

[Bill Hamilton]

I understand the great points that you all make about TXs. The one I speak of is the FOM (Fishers of Men) and on Saturday we had 81 boats. Certainly not a small TX by any stretch of the imagination. Paid out the top 18 boats with the big win around $1,800.



I am relatively new to tournament fishing (my 4th year with FOM) and I truly enjoy the fun and "pressure" that goes with it. Just doesn't seem right to have to go up against the professional whose job is to "fish".



Just thought I would ask everyone's opinion to see if I was just off base or not. BTW, my partner and I finished 51st out of 81 boats.

 

[TrepMan]

Bill - I have been through the same thoughts the last year or so, I've done a few of what I call the big tourneys on our lake - 50-60 boats, $50 entry fee (I know i'm cheap! But haven't placed once so $25 from me and $25 from my non-boater is donations), and have finished in the top 1/2 but never in the $$. We ended up a few years ago starting a local pot tourney on the side of $25/boat ($20 to total weight and $5 to big fish) and paid out 3 minimum and more if we had more boats. By the end of the 3rd season we have 30+ boats fishing, and a few of the real "good" guys from the larger tourney's starting fishing and winning. So they decided to up the entry fee to $50, to give larger payouts and get sponsors and givaways... A number of us just decided that wasen't for us, and 1 guy started a Sunday afternoon tourney for $20/entry, you could fish 1 person in a boat, 2 people in a boat or 5 people and decide when you enter if you want each person to fish by themselves ($25 each) or as a team ($25 for the boat). We also set up "poor man" tourneys, Eli and I ran one in the fall, $25 per boat no more then 10 boats, to keep it friendly, small and competitive.



On the Pros in Amature tourney's, I'm with a few others, when you join a trail read their rules (if they are sanctioned like FOM or a BASS club), and make a decision. On our lake there are clubs, open Pot Tourneys, trails where you must fish X number to make it to the 2nd half of the season, and so on... Personaly there are a few tourney's I won't fish (not that I fish a lot) where the few long time locals always finish in the top or win. I know a lot of guys who donate $1000's of dollars a year to fish against those boys every week of the season for the "chance" to beat them, and others like me who don't see the value at my level/experience, so I choose not to.



The key is as Dan said, fish against the clock, do it if you enjoy it!



Trep

 

[Texas Transplant]

Fish against the best to be the best. Never hesitate to fish against what you think are 'better anglers' than yourself. I did it for years, and it definitely helped make me a better fisherman.



Tex

 

[Bryan McDonough]

It would be interesting to see what you call a Pro. Are we talking about sponsored anglers? Far from a Pro. The elite pros fish the opens, I am fine with it, figure if I want to get to there level got to compete against them.

 

[Mini]

I dont care who shows up at the ramp....its me against the big fish....not the other anglers.



besides I like taking their money



As stated there isnt anything wrong with it as long as there are no rules against it for the tournament.

 

[Herndonpro]

"It would be interesting to see what you call a Pro."



One gentleman that Bill is referring to has won the Bass Masters Classic, I think he and few others in that tournament would be viewed as individuals who make a substantial portion of their income from tournament winnings, promotion and guiding. They would be different from someone who sticks a logo on a shirt for some free gear or a small amount of cash.



I am on the side that if you fish one of the two national pro circuits or make your living or a portion of, guiding on a particular body of water you should not be permitted to fish in a weekend anglers tournament.



Hasn't the BASS Weekend series put in a rule prohibitting FLW and Elite Tour members from fishing?



I think one problem is that unlike other sports (golf, tennis, ect..) amateur in fishing is not clearly defined. In most other sports if you accept cash for winnings you are considered a professional. I've never fished an event regardless of size where the prize wasn't cash, but I would consider myself and most everyone in the events I fish far from a professional(but we can dream).



IMHO since there is no national rules making body for fishing (like the USGA in golf or USTA in tennis) it is the responsibility of each tournament organizer to set a rule of who is eligible to participate in their events. That rule should be clearly stated in the rules and on the entry form for the event. After that it is the anglers responsibility to know whom they may be competing against.



Steve

 

[Texas Transplant]

Most 'Pro's' do NOT make their money from Tourney's - they make it from endorsements, straight sponsorships and Personal Appearances.



If most of the Pro's counted simply 'tourney winnings against costs', they would be like the government. Deficit Spending.



Tex

 

[Mini]

Texas, you would be surprised how many "Pro's" are playing that game.....



I can give you a handful of names that you know that are so far in debt (or bankrupt) they had to quit fishing on that level. Especially now with the economic downturn.



So if thats the case, should that person be allowed to fish?



Around here there are true amateur tournaments that have rules that prohibit anglers if they have won more than $5000 in any calander year, have paid more than $600 for an entry fee and another that if you paid more than $2500 entry fee.



Again, it doesnt bother me at all who shows up, but I can uderstand why some people feel that they shouldnt be allowed to "fish down".

 

[David Munaretto]

If you're not learning, you're dyin' - Go into it with that attitude and you won't care how good the other guys are....