For Beka - Small Hatchbacks - Ideas?

[TrepMan]

Gang - Its not fishing, but with the wealth of knowledge on this site gotta ask.



Family moving back late June, Beka's starting to think about new cars, with gas prices she's looking for a new (or 1 yearold) 4 banger good gas mileage 4 door wagon/hatch. Needs something big enough for the 4 of us and our 2 small pups with a little hatch space for shopping bags. She won't be able to look at them or test drive them for 2 months, but want to narrow the field.



Any of you have good/bad experiences with any of the following, or know of any i'm missing? She's looking in the idealy 20-25k new price range, nothing too small (Honda Fit is too small) but nothing too big/gas mileage wise:



- Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix

- Kia Spectra 5, Kia Rhono

- Mazda 5, Mazda 3 hatch

- Toyota Prius



Trep



Mac - GM gonna release any new/hot hatches in the next 2 months?? I know Shanghai GM has a real nice small 4 door wagon here, but haven't seen one in the US.



Me - I'm going the pickup or sport ute route, but that won't be till Nov at this rate :-(

 

[Greg Meyer]

Trep.



My daughter just bought a "program" 2007 KIA Rondo... had it two months. She love it. I love it. Unbelieveable room... It is a solid car with a 100,000 mile warranty at a very reasonable price. It's not a hatchback... And, it's not a van... If you want the brochure that e hav elaying around here I can mail it... But, the info on-line is probably just as good (brochure might even be downloadable).

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Don't count US GM out Trep...as you know we just bought a 2008 Equinox and it is a wagon for all intents and purposes!! My wife :wub: hers and it gets good MPG even though we have the steroid 6. Take a look at them.



TOXIC

 

[Mini]

That Lincoln MKZ is a hot little ride. Getting a used off lease one would probably be a good deal by the time you get back too.

 

[Bill McElroy]

C'mon Trep....buy an AMERICAN BRAND for cryin' out loud!!:angry:

 

[Jim B]

Yep, the Equinox would fit the bill nicely. My mother got an awd one last fall with the smaller v6 option. Its a nice car, gets decent milage, and its really roomy.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Just something to ponder,......but considering the way the media LOVES the Japanese and takes EVERY opp to slam the US automakers.....here's some info that may or may not help with your decision!! (Oh,..and in 2006 or 07..can't remember which,..but 'Yota recalled MORE vehicles world-wide, than it BUILT!!) But hey,..they're the BEST right?:wacko:



Toyota recalls more than 750,000 SUVs, trucks

Problems with front suspensions may hinder steering



WASHINGTON - Toyota Motor Corp., in one of its largest safety recalls ever, said Tuesday it is recalling more than 750,000 pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles because of problems with the front suspension that could hinder steering.

The company said the recall covers 774,856 vehicles in the United States, including the 2001-2004 model years of the Tacoma, the 2001-2002 versions of the 4Runner and the 2002-2004 model years of the Tundra and Sequoia.

Toyota said the surface of a ball joint which connects to the front suspension may have been scratched when it was manufactured, which could lead to wear and tear over time.

Any excessive wear or looseness in the joint could force drivers to exert more effort when steering, allow the vehicle to drift and increase the amount of noise from the suspension.

Ming-Jou Chen, a Toyota spokeswoman, said the company had confirmed six cases in which the condition existed in the suspension. There have been no injuries associated with the problems.

Toyota said it planned to conduct a similar recall of the affected vehicles in Canada, Japan, Australia and other countries, but did not immediately have the number of vehicles that would be covered outside the U.S.

Chen said it was one of the largest recalls in company history.

In 1992, Toyota recalled about 550,000 Camrys from the 1987-1990 model years because of the potential for power door locks to malfunction and lock passengers out of or inside the vehicles.

In 2002, the company recalled nearly 400,000 subcompact and minicar vehicles exported to the United States, Europe and Canada because of improperly designed brake fluid pipes.

In Tuesday

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I had my Tundra recall done yesterday.. It took less than hour and I was on my way.. Now, if any Auto Group or Statistical Data group or even Consumer Reports calls, I will still tell them I am way up there as far as Owner Satisfaction is concerned. The recalls just show me, that even if something was wrong or not, Toyota was willing to look into it and fix it if necessary. What newspaper was that in Mac? I'd like to read it! I knew this would turn into a Auto Maker fight though.

I just got my 2008 copy of Consumer Reports Annual Auto Issue and to cut it short, without detail, this is the Automaker Report Cards.

#1 - Honda Score 78

#2 - Toyota 75

#3 - Subaru 72

#4 - BMW 71

#5 - Nissan 71

#6 - Volkswagon 71

#7 - Mazda 71

#8 - Mercedes-Benz 67

#9 - Hyundai 66

#10 - Volvo 64

#11 - Mitsubishi 63

#12 - Ford 61

#13 - General Motors 54

#14 - Suzuki 49

#15 - Chrysler 49



In my layman's opinion, most of that is B.S. One very bad model can drag down a lot of very good models. But farther along in the magazine it details each individual model.



Of the cars mentioned here so far:



RELIABILTY SATISFACTION OWNER'S COST



Pontiac Vibe - too new too new Great

Kia Spectra/ - 50/50 no response Great

Kia Rondo - too new too new Great

Toyota Matrix - too new too new Great

Mazda 5 - OK Very Good Very Good

The Mazda 5 is a Consumer Reports Recommended Buy

Mazda 3 - Great Very Good Very Good

The Mazda 3 is also a Recommended Buy

Toyota Prius - Great Great Great

Equinox - Below Average Less than 50% Very Good

The Equinox is the same as the Pontiac Torrent

Lincoln MKZ - Very Good Very Good Fair



I hope this comes out as I wrote it:huh: Of course, if you have the magazine, it will go into greater detail than what I have written here. I also can't find, yet, the recall statistics for Toyota or any other Auto Maker for that matter but I'll keep looking.

never in my life did I ever even imagine myself buying anything who's name ended in a vowel. But, when I had to get something because my Ford F-150 was standard shift and my back wouldn't let me push in the clutch any more, I stumbled across a 2004 Toyota Tundra

access cab V/8 with a huge ARE cap and Bed Rug and it was priced to where I couldn't turn it down. Across the street at another dealership was a beautiful black 2005 F-150 V/8 4wd and one of those hard tonneau covers but it was $6200.00 more. Down the street was a Chevrolet dealership but beside getting a rude, snotty salesman, they didn't have anything there I was interested in except one Silverado 1500 but it was white and still more money than the Tundra.

Funny thing was that I wasn't even looking for a truck but some kind of SUV. But the day I bought the truck I left one of my Doctor's offices with Nancy and we had to sit in traffic for what seemed like hours and then we stopped at big dept. store and I was looking around at different SUV's. I mean no offense to SUV owners but the more I looked the more it seemed like ALL of them looked alike. Every SUV out there. That's when Nancy said, "well, why not get another truck." <Gulp>, ugh, OK:lol:



There's a whole bunch of choices out there and one should suit you Trep. That's why th

 

[Bill McElroy]

UB,...I don't know what paper that article was published in....my boss sent it out, but he just did a cut and paste.

 

[Mini]

Well you should care Uncle Billy! I am not coming down on you, but if we as the American buying public dont support Americans.....we are living the first part of it now......



But we CAN change it. I try to help people make the decision and I understand that people want to buy what they can afford and/or want.....



But if your Aunt and Uncle owned a store. Kind of a five and dime type store that sold a bunch of different things. Would you shop at a competitors? or would you help support your Aunt and Uncle even if it meant spending a little more?



I dont want to start a fight here. I consider you all friends. I know some are going to say "but my Toyota was built here in the US". Please consider supporting longtime American companies that hire American workers.



Enough said!

 

[Teri C.]

Had access to a Pontiac Vibe since they came out. I drive it on very long trips for the gas mileage. Quite alot of room in it and to my knowledge not one issue in over 40K miles with just oil changes.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Here's some more info on another recall......the GM/Toyota joint venture (NUMMI) is based in California....it was developed many years ago so GM could learn the Japanese "just in time" manufacturing processes. Toyota is the majority share holder in that venture.





Toyota and GM Recall 662,000 Vehicles in the U.S.

Reuters



April 10, 2008



DETROIT -- Toyota Motor Corp and General Motors Corp are recalling more than 662,000 vehicles sold in the United States due to defects in power windows, the two companies said on Wednesday.



Toyota will recall 539,500 Corolla and Matrix vehicles for the 2003 and 2004 model years, it said in a statement.



GM said it would recall 122,598 Pontiac Vibe hatchbacks, which share the same platform with Toyota's Matrix and are built by GM in a joint venture with the Japanese automaker.



On vehicles equipped with power windows, the driver and front passenger glass bolts may loosen and cause the door glass to separate from the window regulator, Toyota said. Vehicles equipped with manual windows are not subject to the recall.



Toyota will notify vehicle owners by mail, beginning in late April. It advised owners to contact their local Toyota dealer for inspection and repairs.



Replacement of the driver and front passenger door glass bolts will be done at no charge, Toyota said.

 

[JR F]

Ah heck Trep build your own and buy a bigger boat. My opinion, more Horespower,Less weight..HE HEE I like the Vibe but to slow...Can't buy anything but GM....JR

 

[TrepMan]

First - I didn't expect this to become American made vs. others, not the point I want input on specific models or recommendations, take the other stuff to a different post, defeats the ability for us to have good conversations on specific topics guys and gals.



Greg, Teri, Jim - Thanks for the suggestions, i'll let her know.



Mini - The MKZ is a bit big and flashy for her tastes!



Now Mac - I included the Vibe (thought its joint venture with Toyota, so who actualy gets the profit on a vibe vs. a matrix??), and asked for any new hatches? She doesn't want a cute-ute, she's looking for city mileage in the upper 20's and highway into the 30's. The Equinox with the base V6 is just 17/24 mpg, vs. base 4 banger in the Matrix at 26/32, thats a lot of difference. She looked at the HHR (22/30, which is much better) but she's not a fan of it or the PTCruiser from Chysler from styling. I tell ya, if GM imports the station wagon from shanghai GM with a great gasmileage motor and we're sold! You know my last 4 sedans were Saturns, and if saturn had not discontinued the SL2 Wagon that would be #1 on her list, she loved the body panels, quality, fixed price and amazing service we had on every saturn.



And I included Japan, US (Mazda is partialy owned by Ford), Korean...



We can start another thread on politics of what's made where and where the profits go (just don't forget to include the current IRS regulations for taxing income of corporations, the US is the worst in the world and makes me wonder sometimes why anyone company would have its headquarters in a country that taxes income earned in foreign countries AFTER the company has already paid the foreign companies corp. income tax. Just a thought, as its not as simiple as we sometimes think).

 

[Rich Stern]

Yeah, Trep, buy American! Just like me...my Ford has a German engine. A French transmission. Not sure which Asian country made the ECM. Don't even want to ponder how many parts came from Mexico and Canada.



And don't, under any circumstances, consider a Japanese or Korean brand, no matter how many Americans work at the plant where it was assembled.



By all means, buy American. Whatever the hell that means anymore.

 

[Jim in VA]

Trep:



Good buddy of mine has a Mazda 3 hatchback. Loves it. Downsized from a Jeep Liberty two years back because he didn't need that much room and wanted better gas mileage. He loves it and says its has plenty of zip and no problems. It will hold the six of you (two pups in back), but you'll be short on any extra cargo space from there. Probably holds true for any of your candidate vehicles - except the Prius. Having been in one, it seems the smallest interior of the ones you mention above.



Other options not on your list include the Subaru Legacy (not the Outback version) or the Subaru Impreza. Also, don't know if they will be available by the time you return, but VW is bringing the Jetta wagon back to the U.S. for 2008.



Finally, you may want to consider the mini-utes like the Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rogue, Mazda CX7 etc. Mileage won't be as good, but there will be a bit more interior room.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Trep,..Check out the Saturn Astra,.......pretty cool lookin' car and it meets your criteria.



Here's a review that just hit our newsline today.....



New Astra Represents a Giant Leap for Saturn

The ( Norfolk) Virginian-Pilot



By Larry Printz



April 9, 2008



Climbing into the Saturn Astra, which replaces the miserable Ion sedan, I close the door.



Thunk.



It closes with a solidity I rarely have experienced in a GM product. And the seats! They actually have firm side bolsters and a firm, supportive feel. They're perfect for the weekend autocross enthusiast.



As I twist the key and the four-cylinder comes alive, I slip into gear and drive off. That's when the revelation really begins.



This two-door hatchback was shipped from the continent with minimal revisions. You feel it every time you travel over the pathetically maintained roads in Virginia. I would love to strap some state legislators in this car and have them travel down some of our beautifully rutted roads and see if their spleens are still intact.



Yes, the Astra has a firm ride. A very firm ride. But the car possesses taut handling, minimal body lean and crisp steering associated with European cars.



The Astra is no speed demon - the 1.8-liter four-cylinder is rated at 138 horsepower - but the car is geared so that it makes the most of the power at hand.



This modest powerplant allows drivers to explore the car's limits. Try that when the car you're driving has 400 ponies under the hood. It also returns good mileage, with the test car drinking dinosaurs at a rate of 30.3 miles per gallon.



The Saturn comes with a standard five-speed manual; a four-speed automatic is optional.



But all of this is to be expected. Despite the American badge, the Astra is built in Antwerp, Belgium, and is a best-seller in Europe, second only to the Volkswagen Golf on the sales charts.



And I must admit, the Astra is a great-looking small car, lacking the odd lines of many of its Japanese competitors. The Astra hatchback is sold as a two-door and four-door. The latter comes in two trim levels, XE and XR, the former only in one, XR.



The interior lives up to its heritage: There's only one cupholder. And some of the European-style controls have markings that are indecipherable. But once used to them, they're easy to operate.



Legroom is good up front, OK in the back, as long as the front seats aren't pushed back all the way. Cargo space is unusually large and the split rear seats fold for cargo-carrying flexibility.



The two-door test car's options include an upgraded sound system with mp3 player, handsome 18-inch alloy wheels, heated leather seats and a leather-wrapped steering wheel. (Heated seats are available with or without leather.)



Americans have long held an inferiority complex when it comes to Europe. In the early 20th century, wealthy consumers favored imported makes over American counterparts and, for a time, companies such as Mercedes-Benz and Rolls-Royce set up American factories.



Today, many buyers still prefer European cars because of the suspension, tuning, handling and design rather than snob appeal. European cars have a better feel than their American or Japanese counterparts.



Now we have the Saturn Astra, a German-designed hatchback from GM. It's the best small car GM has sold in the United States in decades.



If you're considering a Mazda3, Volkswagen Rabbit or Honda Civic, try this one out before you buy.

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

The 2004 Chevy Malibu MAX was the car Sue had before the new Mailbu. She really liked it and the hatchback was nice. I htink they stopped with the hatchback version in 08

 

[Rich Stern]

Carlos, my mom has that car (2004). An excellent driving and riding vehicle. Gets decent highway mileage, despite the potent V6 (about 25 mpg). Unfortunately, it exhibits some of the same bugs that the previously generation Malibu had: Electrical accessory/lighting issues, mostly annoying. Otherwise, it has a lot going for it.

 

[TrepMan]

Mac - Well there you do, I know all that whiskey had a hatchback in ya somewhere!!! LOL I'll add that to her list. She hated selling my 2002 SL2 when we moved last year as that thing was solid, good gas, and great service! Just checked the saturn spec's 24/30 mileage not bad at all and she love the fixed price deal on saturns!



Carlos - I rented a Malibu Max, was close, but they tried (in my opinion) to blend a wagon and hatch, but its not made anymore but we'll look at Carmax in June maybe for a good deal on a used one.



Jim - Mini-utes she's realy not interested in, usualy (not always) the gas mileage isn't as good as the compact hatches but will mention to her too.



Can't believe about 8 weeks till we move the family back.



Trep

 

[Steve Rizza]

How about a bright red lowrider Chevy Blazer. I thought it looked like a natural fit in the old picture.



How are the boys liking China, Trep?? They probably think they are in Heaven, they are in the same country where ALL of the toys in the world are made.





Steve

 

[TrepMan]

Steve - Forget that picture, it never happened!!! LOL



Boys are doing good, interesting bits are that most of the stuff made here is not sold here, so all of your electronics (think PSP, Gameboy DSII...) are more expensive here then in the states. Most non-chinese companies have agreements with the governement that those products manufactured/assembled here are for export, so its more $$ to re-import them.



Now, some stuff like DVD's and games for the machines (kids have gameboy's they bought before we came) are cheap, I took the kids to a museum yesterday afternoon and we stopped by for them to spend their allowance, and for $2.8 each they got gameboy games.



Handmade clothes are dirt cheap here, I had two wool suits made, custom fitted, I picked out the material, the cuffs... total was $52.00 US!!



Toys made for the local market, like remote control cars/planes/boats/helliocopters are cheap, we picked up some cars last week for $5 US each.



Trep

 

[Steve Rizza]

Sorry Trep, can't forget a classic like that.:lol:

Now get back, get a new boat so you can sell me yours.You're ready for a 300 hp Z-9.

Steve

 

[TrepMan]

AHH MAN!!! You Had to pull that one up!! Dude I will get you back!!!



No way i'm selling the Nitro, I've only been able to run her less then 2 years!!



I am looking if I can find one good used I may have to consider a Dodge Magnum R/t V-8 as it has a 3800lb towing capacity and will look GREAT with my boat!! Even Beka said "if it will tow the boat, I love the look of those!" But for me, not her not good enough gas mileage for a daily driver

 

[Greg Meyer]

Trep,



That picture has its own folder on my archived backup... So, until the internet, two backup servers (each in a different secure location),(archived tape) my desktop and local backup server here in our shop ALL disappear/fail that picture will live on...

 

[Rich Stern]

That picture has its own folder on my archived backup... So, until the internet, two backup servers (each in a different secure location),(archived tape) my desktop and local backup server here in our shop ALL disappear/fail that picture will live on...

It's also on backup servers in two different data centers, as well as my backup DVDs in a fireproof safe here in GA.



It will never die.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Well you should care Uncle Billy! I am not coming down on you, but if we as the American buying public dont support Americans.....we are living the first part of it now......

Mini, I think you took that "I don't care" out of context. Plus, I'm not getting down on you either and honestly mean no offense, but I don't think ANYONE can challenge my Americanism. The Aunt & Uncle store analogy is a little weak. Of course I'd shop there and I'd want other's to shop there too. However, if they were selling their old station wagon for $2,000. and a gentleman in town had the same one for $1000.00, I'm going to have to P.O. my Aunt & Uncle.

I try to buy American as much as I can. But when I asked around about fishing equipment, especially on this site, 99% of the responses I received mentioned Daiwa, Shimano, Quantum, Fuji, Senco, Yamamoto, Daiichi, Gamakatsu, and others. At the time I had four Billy Westmorland rods and four Penn Spinning reels. Can't get much more American than that. I also wouldn't want to put out of work, however many Americans work for Toyota.

Sorry I couldn't abide by your request Trep, but now you can have your post back. I bought a Toyota Tundra at a great price and didn't expect the fallout I've gotten. If you want, e-mail me your address and I'll send you that Consumer Reports Annual Auto Issue. Then you can see the cars, their ratings and how they got those ratings.

I apologize for dragging this out but felt it necessary to explain my position.





Uncle Billy

 

[Greg Meyer]

Trep,



As you can see your "very good friends" here have you covered!

 

[TrepMan]

Geeze Meyer - Dis ya once for a family reunion and you don't relent!!! LOL



It is ince to know 1/2 way around the world from you guys/gals you still don't forget me!!



Uncle Billy - No Worries (as my Australian team says), its all in good conversation here, and I throw in the last shot in my post above. When i'm back I'll be happy to talk to everyone/anyone about product experiences in China, very eye opening, but difficult to do to from her with the watchdogs.



But back to the topic - Beka and I were looking on-line yesterday and she's considing the Saturn too, except MAC - Can you check for me, the Astra seems to have less then a 10 gallon tank compared to its peers with 14-15 gallon tanks (via search on carsdirect.com)?? This will be a whats available and fits last minute thing i'll tell ya. Her last 3 vehicles (3 minivans - Merc, Honda, Kia) were 99% picked out due to safety and more importantly if she is comfortable in the seat. At her slight hieght and weight, a lot of cars/trucks/minivans she can see over the steering wheel or reach the peddles!! LOL



Trep

 

[Edward Lea.]

Trep don't look past the Ford Focus. We have a 2005 with 85,000 on it with no problems at all. 4 banger with a lot of zip will jump up over 100 quickly if you need to. actually roomy inside. I drive it 180 miles a day now to and from work and am getting 30 MPH at interstate speed. It is a 4 door with the hatch back and the CD player plays MP3's which is nice, I can put a cd in with 160 songs put it on random play and drive for days without hearing the same song twice. I was hit broadside this summer girl blew a stop sign. Car took the impact and $8000.00 of her insurance later it is driving fine again. Damage to me was a bruise where the door thumped my leg and a bump on my head when it bounced off the drivers side window. The window didn't even break. Don't take me wrong that car absorbed a lot of energy and damage but the crumple zone and the seat design really protected me. It is worth your look.

 

[Greg Meyer]

Trepper...



As I told you... I hold a grudge...:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:







:lol::lol::lol:

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Trepper...



As I told you... I hold a grudge...

I've tried, more than once, to talk him out of it Michael but I just cant get through to him. <sigh>



Uncle Billy

 

[Bill McElroy]

:lol:That pix was the original inspiration for the "Jar-Jar Binks" hat!! OMG!!..I'm LMAO!!

 

[JR F]

Radio Flyer

 

[Bill McElroy]

Trep......the Astra has a 12 Gal tank.


http://www.saturn.com/saturn/utilitynav/pdf/ASTRA_08.pdf

 

[Bill McElroy]

Trep,....FYI--Here's some more info from an article just posted on our newsline today...



Let's start with the Astra, which was a mind-blowing experience for me when I drove it. This aggressive-looking compact really carves up the curves and gobbles up the asphalt with strong handling, first of all. Inside and out, the quality is top-drawer, with everything fitting the way it's supposed to fit, and it's all done in attractive, durable materials, inside, too.



The only reservations I had were visibility problems out of the rear window, and the standard equipment list for the Astra is not quite as extensive as some of the competition.



Equipped with a 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine at 140 horsepower, and a five-speed manual transmission, the 2008 Saturn Astra five-door XE will be offered at $15,995. The upscale Astra five-door XR will start at $17,545 and the sporty Astra three-door XR will be priced from $18,495. All prices include shipping and destination charges.



Standard features on all 2009 Saturn Astras include: four-wheel disc brakes with ABS and traction control, six standard air bags, including dual-stage frontal air bags; roof rail head curtain air bags and seat-mounted thorax/pelvic air bags (for front-seat passengers) active head restraints, pedal release system, OnStar with one year of Safe & Sound service, standard tire-pressure monitoring, rain-sensing wiper system, remote keyless entry, steering- wheel controls, cruise control, express-down power windows, and a driver information center.