Follow on to keep it seperate - Pledge of Allegiance

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TrepMan

TrepMan

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OK, in the Marine thread a few got side-tracked on the issue of God and specificaly the Pledge Of Allegiance with the words "one nation, under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all". As we all know from the news, this specific instance of God in schools has been called in to question. I had a very good discussion with a class of mine (14-15 year old boy/girls who are full/part jewish, meaning they may have parents that are one jewish and the other not).



Let's start by seeing who can tell me WHEN the words were added to the Pledge ( there were NOT in their originaly), and by whom and for what specific purpose?



On this topic there is a black and white answer to why God was inserted at this time and in this goverment institution, not saying it was right or wrong. Now once we get that straight, can someone tell me if the situation that caused certain people to put that in, does that situation exist today or would trying to add those words today have a very different public reaction???
 
here you go Trep



On Flag Day June 14, 1954, the words
 
OK jim on point 1 we're ALMOST there. Why did Eisenhower do this at this point in time? What was going on that drove him and his adminstration to feel they NEEDED to add God at that point in history??
 
My personal take is i dont mind it there. The term "God" dosent imply a specific religon. a "God" is someone who is worshiped. For christans its Jesus Christ, for Jewish people its Adonai, for muslums its Allah.....So in that light "God" can mean many different things to different people.



Now if it said our lord Jesus or something like that i would sure sure take exception.
 
It was added in 1954.



The background is as follows: Because of the (mostly cold) war against communism, several members of congress took it upon themselves to write a bill that would change the Pledge of Allegiance to include the words "Under God."



The motivation of the congressmen (besides reelection) was to make a statement that the U.S. was different from the "godless communists." The widespread fear of communism and the Soviets made for a receptive public.



At the signing ceremony, President Eisenhower, a devout Christian, stated in his speech, "...this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim, in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."



I believe public reaction would be different today, because the U.S. has grown in diversity since 1954. Not everyone wants to proclaim their allegiance to the Judeo-Christian god when proclaiming their allegiance to the United States. And since the Constitution says they don't have to, well, they shouldn't.

 
On a sidebar item, please note the following:



The comma is after the word God. There is no pause after 'one nation' - as most everyone does. It's :



'one nation under God, (pause) indivisible, (pause) with liberty and justice for all.'



Be different - say it correctly!



Life Member

American Business Clubs



Tex
 
In addition, I got this from some good friends the other day. Since we are 'somewhat on subject' here, I thought that I would post it.



HISTORY
 
I find it ironic that everyone rants and raves about "rights", and yet this is what I have seen. I have seen kids suspended from school for wearing Christian based t-shirts, hats, etc.

HOWEVER, nobody says anything about the kid wearing satanic t-shirts, or the muslim kid with his religion being put forth, or Jewish with the Star of David etc for the sake of we may "infringe" upon THIER rights.



But what happened to the Christian kid's rights???



So...wait a minute....let me get this right, everyone ELSE has rights but those whom are Christian? Gee, that seems just a tad hypocritical....dontcha think?



Now personally, I'm going through a little struggle with my faith and don't know WHAT I believe anymore. I don't think it right to impose on anyone's right to practice any religion, whether it be Jewish, Islamic/Muslim, Christian, or Barney the stinkin dinosaur, AS LONG AS that religion does not teach to infringe upon others rights like many satanic cults do.



So from a completely unbiased view, lets jump OFF the stupid PC bandwagon for just a minute, stop "crucifying" the Christians in the name of all "other" religions and their rights.



And that is ALL I have to say on that.



Fire away. I'm used to it.
 
OK, Tex, but let's make sure we get ALL the famous quotes in while we are at it:



"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit." --Thomas Paine



"Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far error." --Ben Franklin



"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution." --James Madison



"He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on Atheism...He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I ever heard." --John Stuart, regarding his law partner, Abraham Lincoln



"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." --Abraham Lincon



"Religion is all bunk." --Thomas Edison



"I believe that religion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose." --Clarence Darrow



"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." --Frank Lloyd Wright



Among others. The point is, if you tell the WHOLE TRUTH, you get what you have today...widely ranging views on the topic. That's why it's best to leave religious teachings to parents and their chosen church. Public schools can't serve up religion to a diverse population.



You are making the case that the founders of the United States were somewhat uniform in their religious beliefs. But you failed to present that they formed a new nation partly because they were persecuted as a minority by others. The wisdom they gained from persecution was employed to spare future Americans the same persecution, by writing laws that protect the minority with the same rights as that of the majority.
 
Rob, can you site a specific case where government (ie, a public school) denied someone the right to wear a Christian garment?



That would be a violation of the indivuals rights, unless the garment somehow violated a uniform dress code that was applied equally to all students.



I've heard this claim before, but no one ever gives specific places or dates. I'm interested to hear specifics if you know them.
 
Your back yard Rich,



Student to Be Disciplined for Praying

UPI

April 8, 2000

A Georgia high school student faces possible disciplinary action on Friday for repeatedly praying aloud during a state-mandated period of quiet reflection.

John Robert Cruz is continuing to pray aloud after being suspended for 10 days for defying a school prayer law enacted by the Georgia legislature in 1994, which requires a moment of silent reflection at the start of the school day.



"I will not stop praying," the 14-year-old said. "God gave me a mission and I'm going to do it." Carver High School principal Cleophus Hope said Cruz had otherwise been a model student with a B average.



 
Rob, that's not the same thing. There are court cases, including Supreme Court decisions, where the courts have upheld that students cannot do what John Cruz is described as doing in the article above.



Going back to the original point you made: Christian garments that earned a reprimand whereas other religious or anti-religious garments did not in the same school?

 
Rich,

I can't find it now, but if I look through old records I can find a case where a kid was suspended for wearing a t-shirt that read something like, "Got Jesus?"

The point is, Christians are subject to a hypocritical, left wing, double standard. You ASKED for an example, I GAVE you one, and now it seems like you're skirting around the truth of it. It is, what it is.
 
Sounds like something heard on right-wing talk radio to me. I looked up the dress code at my local school system web site and here it is. Looks to me like they actually discourage negitave or satanic type clothing to me. I do know that there is a Supreme Court case springing from Chickasha OK, a small town southwest of OKC where a Moslem student was forbiden from wearing her scarf on her head (can't remember the correct name) which is traditional for females in her religion. So I would have to disagree that the Christians are the only ones who have to conform to the rules.

Why did the boy in Georgia feel compelled to pray aloud during the moment of silent reflection? What is it about Christians that make them want to cram their philsophy down everyones throat. If you are happy with your beliefs then cool but don't condem me because I don't want to play along. I have NEVER had a Jew, Unitarian, Hindu, or Atheist knock on my door telling me how screwed up I am and that I'm going to burn in damnation if I don't agree with them. That is not only self-rightous it is self-pride and I don't think that's what Jesus taught.



BTW Trepper, I'll bet you're suprised to find out you're not a real American. ;>)



The following is the dress code for Edmond OK. which is in my opinion a pretty typical middle American town. I think item #5 is the most pertinent to out discussion here.



Harpo



DRESS CODE, STUDENT (Effective SY 2001-2002)



The student dress code is based upon the premise of recognizing fashion without sacrificing decency, safety, and appropriateness. It is the intent to restrict extremes and indecency which will detract from the main purpose of the educational program. Dress and grooming which causes or is likely to cause disruption of the instructional program of the school is prohibited.



The following are general guidelines regarding proper dress. Inappropriate attire includes but is not limited to the following:



1. Headgear (examples: hats, caps, bandanas, sunglasses, stocking caps) is not to be worn in the building.Any headgear brought to school should be kept in the student's locker or cubby during regular school hours. Exceptions may be made by the principal for spirit days or special activities.



2. Halter tops, off-the shoulder tops, bare midriffs, tube tops, spaghetti straps, [muscle shirts, mesh shirts or fishnet (unless a t-shirt is underneath)], backless or partial backless garments, or outer garments with the appearance of underwear are not permitted to be worn by students.



3. Frayed, shredded, ripped or torn garments are not to be worn by students. Normal wear and tear isaccepted unless it is to the extent that causes or is likely to cause disruption of the instructional program.



4. Apparel that is too tight or too loose is not to be worn by students. Clothing which is too revealing or does not completely cover undergarments may not be worn, (examples: mini skirts, short shorts, low cut clothes or exposed cleavage.)



5. Apparel that reveals offensive writing, suggestive slogans or logos which pertain to beer, liquor, drugs, or tobacco is not to be worn. Items which carry connotations of immorality, vulgarity, obscenity, nudity or promotion of violence and/or gang/cult activity (examples: article of clothing, belts, jewelry, or school materials) are not allowed.



6. Apparel identifying a student as "security" or "police" is not to be worn.



7. Bike or animal chains/collars/spikes are not to be worn.
 
Rob, I asked you to describe a jaguar, you held up a picture of a zebra. One has spots, the other stripes. How is that giving me an example of what we are discussing?



I wasn't putting you on the spot to insult you. I don't doubt you heard it. I just want to know of actual cases rather than hearsay.
 
TT,





Thank you for stating "Be Different-Say it correctly." I belive what you stated right there hit the nail right on the head. Our history of the United States should never be changed because the way of our fore-fathers ment it to be is they way it should be. It has been written in stone since they incorperated the "saying" of the Pledge, and that is the way it should be.







T.S.
 
I dunno, those Jehova's Witnesses sure do try to do a sell job (read "cram down my throat") at my door about once a month.



TOXIC
 
Harpo - Which place mentioned "real americans" above? Missed it!
 
Tox, good point, Jehova's Witnesses = Christians

Like Gallaiger said, "One way to cut down on government spending is to give the mail to the Jehova's Witnesses...they're going to knock on your door everyday anyway."



Travis, the Pledge wasn't written by the "Founding Fathers" like so many think. It was written by a Socalist minister who was driven from the church for his radical ideas. The Pledge was part of a marketing scheme to help sell flags to schools.

Click the link and read the whole story.



Harpo
http://www.independent.org/tii/news/040405Watkins.html
 
Honestly in my heart I feel once we started changing the way things used to be is when all our problems began.We changed things so much even the bad guy has rights. America was built on certain standards and everyone respected that.

When we started changing them standards look how are country ended up. I believe everyone has rights but lets not go overboard,when I was growing up in the city of Philadelphia we could go to bed and leave the front door open. (There is a reason Why) I am sorry if I got off topic a little bit or ruffled anybodies feathers but I love this country and I'll never stop saying or singing GOD BLESS AMERICA. (Who knows that could be next)
 
Trep, I guess I was reading between the lines in Tex's response. I see alot of that; "If your not a Christian, there something wrong with you" mentality in some of those quotes. Something I feel all the time even though I have managed to raise a great family, I don't steal, murder, and I give to charity as much as I can. Certainly no offense to you was intended. I hope none was taken.



Harpo
 
LOL @ Tox.....Thats the way we do it here in michigan too. I always have a weapon in my room weather it be my bow/gun or my sling shot with paintballs.







T.S.
 
well, i thought long and hard on wether or not to post in this thread, as you all know I rarely like to discuss such matters...



:)



TT,



Your post about the "Founding fathers roots in christianity" is a very slanted view, I would suggest that you look into several history books and the writings of the framers of the constitution and decide for yourself if they were "orthodox christians" or not... Any article that relys on a conspiracy or "revisionist history" to prove it's allegations should be looked at as highly suspect in origin and intention.



Fact is that many, if not all, of the framers of our constitution were Deist in belief. This is not to say they did not belong to a christian church from a community standpoint.. the times back then were very different. In fact, if you look hard enough you will find examples of religious persecution at that time that would surprise you.



The framers of the constitution had the right idea, that the Government should have no part in promoting one religion over another, or in having a "state sponsored" faith or church.



If you go back and read the constitution, the declaration of independance and the bill of rights, you will find no mention of "Christianity" or "Jesus"... you will find references to the "Creator" (and possibly "God")... But don't take my word for it, go read it. The framer's recognized religion for what it was.



The problem is that we, as americans, have lost our way, we have forgotten the very principles that we were founded upon...



Instead of embracing the differences we have chosen to silence them.



Do these people not realize that by ignoring the differences we only create a hostile society?



There are many stories in the media where certain people seem to be singled out in this... the boy being punished for "praying out loud" for example... is he being punished for the prayer itself or the disruption that he created in the manner of his prayer? You have to be careful in deciding what is actually being punished.



The public school system has a very tough road to follow, in order to be "fair and balanced" they seem to have only 2 choices:

1. Present ALL

2. Present NONE



Since people seem to be more litigous these days, and look at any inclusion or disclusion as favoritism, the school system chooses none as the only logical course...



In the case of the Pledge of allegiance, (some) people that do not believe in any "God" (Atheist) take offense at the words "Under God", and see it as Government promotion of "A God".



In the case of the Ten Commandments, people see that as a Government approval of the Bible, which becomes a defacto of "state sponsorship"...



In neither case are people willing to look beyond the words and back at the "principle" involved.



We live in a country where we demand "freedom of religion" but refuse anyone that may believe differently.



We demand "seperation of church and state" but it's news that the president goes to church, etc...





We have forgotten our way... we need to be reminded that the principals we were founded on are simple:



<b><i><font color=red>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. </font></i></b>



............

As to Eisenhower, were you aware that his mother was a devout Jehovah's Witness and that he and his brother were raised in that faith? (They did not adhere to it as strictly as she, but they were raised in it)

............

 
The majority of our people are Christians. I'm not one of them. I think it is fine for us to keep "Under God". In our Pledge of Allegiance. I also feel it's mighty greedy of anyone who would want to take it out since it would obviously upset the majority of our people. If you don't like your country: find little ways to break it down.

I like that the phrase is in our Pledge since it shows our diverse acceptance of one another as U.S. Citizens regardless of beliefs.





here are some links of interest: sorry, you'll have to copy & paste

http://robert.williamsonline.us/archives/000204.html



http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/000439.html



http://www.ttc-cmc.net/~nlight/libertar.htm



http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=8553



all within 15 minutes of googling




http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20030507cross0507p2.asp
 
Ok Mikel,



What if the majority were Muslim, and they wanted "under Allah"... would you still feel the same? Or under Baal? Or "Buddha"?







 
Harpo - Gotcha now, yes There is some of that growing undercurrent and I see it time and again in the political arena which is what bothers me - as i've stated on other posts.



But to this specific topic on "under god", my view is it was put into the pledge TO show a certain "religeous" strong hold during the cold war. I don't think it was right then and I don't think it is right now. That said, when I was a child I said it and still do, because that is the way I was taught.



What I find funny/ironic is the same people who are FIGHTING to keep "under God" in the pledge saying why change it, even though it was NOT there till the mid 50's, are the SAME people PUSHING to put things like the 10 Commandments in government buildings even though there is no historical precedence they can speak to that they were in the past.

 
I think perhaps a subtle point needs to be made...



1. The word God is, indeed, "unspecific"... this can be an insult to those that call their God by a specific name...(You shall have no other God's before me), and even more agregious to those that believe in "no" God...



2. The freedoms in our constitution are not about "majority rules" but about insuring that the minority are not oppressed by the majority when it comes to religion...( Congress Shall make no law... )...



Edited to add:

ideally, all people in our society would recognize and respect the beliefs of others, and would "substitute" "under Allah" for "under God" or remove the words "under God" if they dont beleieve... but as I stated before, litigation and taking offense seems to be the rule of the day...



Not at all what the Founders intended.
 
Ben - My point is we DO change in this country, and unfortunetly some folks consider the Constitution and the Declaration of Independance LIVING documents that can be interpreted at a whim! Yes there are situations today that did NOT exist 200+ years ago that require our elected officials to adjust the laws to suit modern society.



If you were taught in a public school that "God did create & that Christ was a savior." then that was a failing of our government in your education! Being jewish I would have had a HUGE problem in your school if that was taught.



My view on "why is everyone now want to take GOD out of the pledge?? " is more NO ONE KNEW that it was put IN in the 50's! Especialy the younger of us! When the CA lawsuit came out I did my research to find out if it was originaly like that, and of course it was not. So, to me the question is more why was it put IN, and was that A) appropriate then, B) Is it appropriate now, and C) is it constitutional? It's like other key issues like Abortion, which there is NOTHING in the constitution about that either specificaly!



So this post, is as usual, VERY informational from others points of view and an educational learning point of view!
 
OUCH! Sorry guys...that was just me biting my tongue.

I'm trying to be good here....but many of you could already predict what I would say, and which side I'm on. You know where I stand. Thats good enough.



Although, and here I go....why can't I learn.... one major misquote here I feel I must weigh in on.



Jehovah's Witnesses = Christians



Not so. I'll tell you why I say this, and then I won't argue about it all day. Any group, or cult, or denomination that must add to or take away from the Bible to strengthen their beliefs are not Christian. The Jehovah's witnesses do both. Christians are those who follow Christ, follow His Word only, and rely on Him solely for their salvation. Again, you'll find that JWs stray from these beliefs greatly.



Sorry, but I couldn't keep silent on this one.



By the way, Trep, although there may be nothing in the constitution about abortion, we do have laws against murder.



God Bless,

Ed
 
Ed...



On this we agree... but they do set an example when it comes to "door to door" activity and religous prosyletyzing... and they claim christianity as thier own.



 
Our world is constantly changing....this was copied from another site:





Headline news for the year 2035..



1. White minorities still trying to have English

recognized as California's

third language.

2. Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United

States crops and

livestock.

3. Baby conceived naturally... Scientists stumped

4. Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual

marriage.

5. France pleads for global help after being

overtaken by Jamaica.

6. Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can

now be imported legally,

but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all

smoking.

7. George Z. Bush says he will run for President in

2036.

8. Postal Service raises price of first class stamp

to $17.89 and reduces

mail delivery to Wednesday only.

9. 35 year study: Diet and Exercise is the key to

weight loss.

10. Average weight of Americans drops to 250 lbs.

11. Massachusetts executes last remaining

conservative.

12. Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals

violates their civil rights.

13. Average height of NBA players now nine feet,

seven inches.

14. New federal law requires that all nail clippers,

screwdrivers, fly

swatters, and rolled up newspapers must be

registered by January 1, 2036.

15. Congress authorizes direct deposit of illegal

political contributions to

campaign accounts.

16. Capitol Hill intern indicted for refusing to

have sex with congressman.

17. IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75%.

18. Florida Democrats still don't know how to use a

voting Machine.



--------------------

 
Man, Sim, I think that's twice in one month we agreed on a point! We gotta get together and do lunch, this could be the beginning of a lifelong friendship! :)



Anyway, I hear what you're sayin'. I have to admit, as a Christian I have done some door to door myself, but I do not proseletyze. If someone were to tell me they are of another religion, and they're not interested I certainly don't try to change them. I move on. In my community, the Mormons and the JW's absolutely saturate the homes on any given day. I don't slam the door when they come to my house, because I do respect them for the hard work they do. But, usually when I tell them where I stand, they want to argue with me and tell me I'm wrong. I don't have time to stand and debate with someone who I know is not going to listen to a word I say, so I simply tell them to have a good day, and go inside.



God Bless,

Ed
 
Ed,



We should talk privately... I can give you a few "stumper" type of questions that will throw them for a loop... I haven't had a JW at my door in a long, long time....



E-mail me if your interested.





 
Ed & Sim, just out of curiousity I found the JW website. I have to say they think of themselves as Christians. Maybe the minor points are differant but isn't that true of all denomonations?



Harpo
http://www.watchtower.org/
 
Sooner...



yes, they certainly think of themselves as christians, but to be quite honest, their "public" website only tells half of the story.



While certain doctrines and teachings are up for debate, the internal structure of the JW organization and thier history tell a much different tale.



It is the control they exhibit over their membership that differentiates them from many others... they are a high control group, that while encouraging others to examine thier religion for truth, they discourage thier own membership from that same examination...(this is just one example).



You could also describe the JW as an "end times" or "apocolyptic" group... they are expecting Armegeddon "any day now", and have been for 130 + years...



 
Sim - I like the one my Dad always used "Sorry we're Jewish, but if you'd like to join our religion i'd be happy to act as the moehel and perform the circumcision right now." As he grabs a scapel!!! LOL
 
Okay Sim, here's the part where I get confused. The JW's believe in God only they call Him/Her Jehovah. They believe that Jesus is the son of Jehovah and as a God walked in human form on the earth. Sounds like a Christian to me. Don't all other Christian denomonations have differant interpertations of the Bible? And are not each and every one of them convenced of their correct point of view. I remember when I was a kid my mother and grandmother both took me to the Presbyterian church but my older brother went to the First Baptist church which was considered the scandal of the family. I started going to the Baptist church with my brother and you would have thought I had run off with the Hell's Angels. I remember a girl that lived across the street telling me that I was going to go to hell because I didn't go the Church of Christ. WHAAAAT!!!

That's the problem I have with the whole thing. It just seems like it's all based around somebody's opinion and if you want peace of mind and eternal happiness all you have to do is agree with THAT guy. One group says, do this but don't do that and then the other says, you can do that but you can't eat that and then yet another group says, eat whatever you want just don't dance......I'm sorry but I don't get it and I don't buy into it and I think I live just as moral of life as all the others and more so than many that I've had dealings with.



Harpo
 
Sooner...



You are completely correct...



My differentiation for the JW version of "christianity" is in their internal controls/teachings and literature, not specifically in thier publicly stated beliefs.



Suffice it to say that there are several key areas where the JW teachings are in direct opposition to that of the majority of the rest of christian teachings, if not in direct opposition of the bible itself.



The reason(s) you stated in your post is why I specifically reject all of "revealed" religion... in favor of my "god given" reason.







 
Sim, I think you and I are singing out of the same hymm book. ;>)



Harpo
 
Ben - I agree 100% with "Well I have a problem with Jewish beliefs being taught." The ONLY place ANY religion should be TAUGHT is in the home, church and personal life, NOT in a goverment sactioned/funded school, period! I do not have a choice in paying my Taxes, so I do have a choice in deciding HOW that tax $$ will be spent! remember that the $$ paying for public schools is NOT the governments money it's OURS!! In fact if anyone can find the date, pre WWII (I think it was WWII) there was NO SUCH THING as withholding income taxes! you just paid it every year in a single check. But during the war, the US needed every penny for the military/equipment and they started the withholding process, which was SUPPOSED to stop AFTER the war!! So, as long as this is NOT a Communist/socialist government who decides WHICH religions are taught or not taught in public schools, let's leave God to the people.



Yes the NEW bible talks of 'Gods', the Old Testament talks of ONE God and punishes those who pray to more then one God. But I do not profess to tell the Christian/Catholic's that they are damned because they worship Jesus or the holy trinity, when the FIRST bible said there is ONE God.



What I guess I still don't understand is WHY anyone would WANT thier God taught or mentioned in school? There are too many religions and no one is RIGHT or Wrong, it's a personal choice and faith, keep it personal.
 
Trep,



I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. Our belief systems should come from home first, and then from our churches. There is no way that any "religion" should be pushed or taught in public schools. That is just wrong. I wouldn't want any other religious beliefs taught to my child, so I understand how another parent of another denomination or religion would feel the same. Basically, its just not the responsibility of the public school to teach religious things.



The problem I have though, is that other things that go AGAINST the religious teachings of many, ARE being taught in the schools. The age old creation/evolution argument is a perfect example. If the schools feel they must teach evolution as a "theory" I am ok with that, but they also should teach creation as at least another "theory". Too many schools, not all, teach only the evolution and leave out the creation. That sends the wrong signal to our children. Those who don't have a strong "Christian" background have no other choice than to just believe what they are taught as the "truth". If some children can opt out of saying the pledge because it goes against their religious beliefs, then others ought to be able to bypass tests that force them to give so called "scientific answers" that they believe are untrue. They should not have to put an answer down for a test that goes directly against what they believe, just to get a grade.



Anyway, as I started out, I agree with you 100% on not teaching any religion in public schools. That's why we have private schools as an option.



God Bless,

Ed
 
Responding to:

"What if the majority were Muslim, and they wanted "under Allah"... would you still feel the same? Or under Baal? Or "Buddha"?"



God. Some people call him Allah; Some call him Buddah; to me he is one and the same. It's the wacko's of each that create problems...Christians have been no different throughout history.

 
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