Subject: Senator McCain

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fatrap

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Subject: Senator McCain



The Appeals Court and the ACLU in their liberal thinking, do not feel the Pledge of Allegiance is worth saying.

From Senator McCain



In light of the recent appeals court ruling in California, with respect

to the Pledge of Allegiance, the following recollection from Senator

John McCain is very appropriate:.



"The Pledge of Allegiance" - Senator John McCain

As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war

during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA

kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the

NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as

many as 30 to 40 men to a room.



This was,as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result

of the efforts of millions o f Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs

10,000 miles from home.



One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike

Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't

wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in

the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training

School. Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and

captured in 1967.. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the

opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want

to work and want to succeed.



As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some

prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were

handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing.



Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, < BR>he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt.



Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's

shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance.



I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of

our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed

the most important and meaningful event.



One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically,and

discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it.



That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the

benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple

of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We

cleaned him up as well as we could..



The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which

we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room.



As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the

excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting

there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another

shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was

sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had

received, making another American flag. He was not making the flag

because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag

because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our

allegiance to our flag and country.



So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance,you must never forget

the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build

our nation and promote freedom around the world.. ;



You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country



"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to

the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible,with

liberty and justice for all."



PASS THIS ON... and on... and on! You can even send it back to me, I

don't mind, bec
 
HELL Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THese liberal yuppies need to realize that the real Americans don't need them to tell us what to say, how to say it and where to say it. It's America, land of the free and home of the brave.

Barry from Louisiana.
 
Verified as accurate, by snopes.com.



McCain and the others that served over there during this time, are exceptional men and heroes to this country.



I have had the pleasure of meeting (several times) and hearing Sam Johnson (Plano, TX) speak on various subjects. It was very hard to imagine what horrors they endured, as I observed the condition of Sam's hands.



Tex
 
I don't know what to say.. And that's pretty rare. I served with people like this. They, and God only know what makes them.
 
We've been lucky enough to live in a free society where being stubborn when you are right is admired... That and a little Bill Murray; "We're mutants"... And, you have the hundreds and thousands of heroes that serve in our military forces...
 
I love the Pledge.



I'd like all Americans to be able to declare their allegiance to the flag without declaring allegiance to a God they may not worship.



That ok with you, fellas?
 
Rich - You say it your way and I will say it my way with no disrespect. It's your preogative as it is mine.



:)
 
Rich,



I agree with you. I'll also take all that money you have that says "In God We Trust".
 
Surprisingingly enough, I never had an issue with the phrase "under God" in the pledge. I always figured that those it offended could always say the pledge without that portion and still have the same sentiment to our country.



Rich D
 
That's fine, Bill. But do I have to pay tax dollars so that a gov't employee teaches five year olds to say it your way?



Rick, if you research the "In God We Trust" history, you may find it was government engaging in behavior that might scare you a bit if it happened today.
 
Rich - It could be worse. You could be taxed 6 figures yrly. in part to support a public educational system that basically forces you to spend more money to have your child privately educated. (Our public ed. down here is deplorable, to say the least.) I personally have no problem with persons ommitting the added phrase in the pledge or even silently standing while others commit themselves to our nation. I do believe that they should at least stand to show respect for the flag and the union that gives them the freedom to have their opposing, diminutive views.



*edit SP - See how bad the education system is here! :lol:
 
I personally have no problem with persons ommitting the added phrase in the pledge or even silently standing while others commit themselves to our nation.



Nation and Judeo-Christian God. That is not how we are supposed to govern ourselves. To quote Dwight D. Eisenhower, at the 1954 bill signing ceremony celebrating the changes the pledge to include "under God."



". . . millions of our school children will daily proclaim . . . the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."



Is it the business of our government to suggest and reinforce the religious views of public school children? I think that's properly left to parents and spiritual leaders. So did the founders of the nation.



I do believe that they should at least stand to show respect for the flag and the union that gives them the freedom to have their opposing, diminutive views.



Ah, but that's the rub: If we are truly free, then any political expression, including sitting through the pledge (or burning the flag), is an inalienable right if the rights of others are not violated by excercising that right.



It may be offensive to you if someone doesn't stand, but you don't have a right to not be offended. I probably wouldn't like it either, but I can't claim to know the moral and political mind of another person and suggest what their allegiance should be. Maybe they have a legitmate beef with the U.S. government. They wouldn't be the first ones to feel that way.



The entire mindset of the founders was distrust of formal government. Much of their work involved trying to limit the power and influence of government in people's lives.



Sadly, we are a long way from there.
 
Rich - I should have prefaced that I was just voicing an opinion that I hold dear. I really feel that the "entitlement" mindset has created many of the differences recognized almost daily, like the one we're addressing. Some people feel they are "entitled" to have these views (pro or con) because of how our society was established, but don't have the common courtesy to show respect for the reasons (and people) that created, fought and/or died to provide it. They are the miniscule voice, compared to the nation as a whole, that receives a megaphone to proclaim their "violation" of rights, usually culminating in the majority bending to the whim of a minority. Luckily for them, true American patriots and loyalists have paved the way for their right to try and deconstruct whatever they see as an annoyance. My true gut feelings are if people don't like their nation and the laws held within, constructively and respectfully try to change them or go somewhere that will make them happy. IMHO
 
My true gut feelings are if people don't like their nation and the laws held within, constructively and respectfully try to change them



Dan, I agree.



What has Michael Nedow done that doesn't fit your description? "Constructively" is obviously a subjective comment. People who believe he is right see it as a constructive excercise.



"Respectfully"...after considerable personal study on the subject, the man filed a suit in keeping with the laws of his state and the federal code. That's about as respectful as you can get. He didn't throw a rock through the school window, or threaten to blow the place up. Yet, I routinely hear or read from those who don't share his view: They villify the man as if he is some sort of evil creature. Why? For standing up for what he believes the founders of the nation intended when they wrote the first amendment, and for using the civic structure of our nation to raise the issue in the courts?



And when such methods don't work, I have no problem with civil disobedience for an adult American citizen who recognizes the consequences of their actions. If someone feels grossly wronged by the government, we should all support their right to protest in whatever non-violent way is available to them, because someday, we may need to take that same action.



Respectfully, as always, my friend.
 
People who believe he is right see it as a constructive excercise
.



I guess that's my rub. If 10 or 10,000 or 100,000 people feel so adamantly against an idea, principle, or sacred allegiance that 20 - 50 million want (being conservative), and have held the principle dearly for centuries, I believe it's incredibly disrespectful to try and force the masses that they must change or adopt a new idea or principle held by so few in comparison. ( Or worse, that they may no longer publicly endorse their ideas/beliefs as they have done for centuries.) The old saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans.", still makes perfectly good sense to me today. (If in Rome, and the individual doesn't like the Roman way, common sense would dictate to get the heck out of Rome! LOL!) I'm not against disagreeing with or voicing what people hold personally offensive with their governing body, but I am against the same individuals trying to force, by new legislature, their ideas onto me, when my predecessors have paid for these long-held beliefs with their lives; their allegiance fighting for this nation and flag that the gentleman you refer to finds showing common public respect or, dare I say, patriotism so reprehensible.



...standing up for what he believes the founders of the nation intended when they wrote the first amendment, and for using the civic structure of our nation to raise the issue in the courts?



What he (and his like-minded associates) believes is grossly outnumbered by what the overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens believe and have held for multiple decades. The fine tuning of "under God" in the pledge or preferring not to pray, etc., I hold no personal grievance with. Telling me that I cannot do that very same thing that our forefathers were willing to die for, because it might offend one person in 100,00, is my personal line that get's crossed. I'd say it's just me, but from what I see repeatitively, I'm joined by tens of millions of others within our borders sharing our flag.





I really enjoy your viewpoint on this and, really, all other subjects, not just because you're my friend, but because you present the argument intelligently and very respectfully. (That's for sure just one of the reasons I call you my friend!) On this particular subject, I beleive we have opposing, yet respective viewpoints. One of the most beautiful things about our nation is that we can have differing ideas and still, civilly, "agree to disagree".



Can I still have a ride in your new toy when it's ready! :D



P.S. You and yours have a blessed and loving Hannukah!!

 
Thomas Jefferson to Jeremiah Moore, August 14, 1800

"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law, & ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. They are still so in many countries & even in some of these United States. Even in 1783, we doubted the stability of our recent measures for reducing them to the footing of other useful callings. It now appears that our means were effectual."
 
P.S. You and yours have a blessed and loving Hannukah!!



Dan, thanks. Actually, we celibrate Christmas. :)



Thanks for the honest and open discourse!



Happy holidays!
 
Rich - Oops! My bad. Don't know why I thought that. I obviously wasn't paying attention (again!) and I apologize for the confusion.



(FWIW - As kind and generous of a friend that you've been for many years now, if you and yours celebrated Santaria, Satanism or even a Shetland Pony Sacrifice, I'd still wish you all a Happy Holidays as well! :lol::wacko::lol: )



One of my New Year's resolutions will be to spend more time with my friends ( hopefully on the water) and listen intently to them when they're speaking! :D
 

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