Eliminate bed fishing from tournaments

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Thomas Macaluso

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I agree with Toxic bed fishing should be eliminated from tournaments . It could be done easily enough by not scheduling tournaments around the spawn
 
I feel it is like shooting yourself in the foot. Why disturb the bass when they are trying their best to make the sport better by reproducing. You'll see hundreds of studies that prove the point both ways but I say just let em' be. It'll be better for all of us in the long run. It is a real rush to watch a fish take your offering but to catch a bedding fish is no challenge. You get the bigger fish (females) when they are at their most vulnerable time. To catch and release is one thing, to catch and well and run to weigh in is quite another.



TOXIC
 
That's an awful long time period in some areas. If the goal is to eliminate catching fish off the beds, then why not prohibit fishing altogether during that time frame? That doesn't seem feasible to me. At least tournaments are catch and release. Meat fishermen will be taking the fish out of the fishery.



My thoughts are to just leave it alone.
 
Just my .02 , but I dont think bed fishing is like shooting fish in a barrel. I cant tell you how many times they pick up the bait and blow it off the bed before I can get a hookup. I personaly enjoy site fishing and bedding bass is the ultimate site fishing..

Just my .02. I also believe their are studies that show that the fish move right back on the beds after being caught.. I think I have read several articals in bassmaster and bassin mags.

 
They don't move back to the bed from the weigh in point 5 miles away. You have ruined that fish's ability to spawn. Like it or not you have eliminated the ability of that fish to reproduce. And dewey, there are a LOT of places that you are not (By Law) allowed to fish the spawn. The spawn lasts 2-3 weeks at the most. We as fishermen have to put our selfish desires and pleasures aside and start managing our resource. This has to happen at our level or it will not happen at all. I'm not saying ban fishing during the spawn but it should be a paper tournament or Catch/Photo/Release (CPR) under no circumstance should they go in the well.



TOXIC
 
What lake are you fishing ????? the spawn on the east TX lakes can go on for 3 months or more....
 
I'm a little bit North of that...VA. If you include pre and post we have that much time. And don't forget in some areas they may just spawn twice.



What's your point?



Does that make it worth ruining that fish's spawn? I'm not saying not to fish, but no Tournaments and no welling. What's the argument to that?



TOXIC



 
Tox, that is what New Hampshire has done. They havent outright baned fishing during the spawn but they do not allow 2 things. One is live bait fishing and the other is you arent allowed to keep a fish for any reason. Its instant catch and release during the spawn. It seems to work good up there, what they do is from ice out until may 15th its a two fish limit for keeping then from may 15th to june 15th its instant catch and release, from june 15th to july 1 its 2 fish again then 5 after july 1.



With the smallmouth up there spawn fishing is like fishing in a bucket. The fish wont move off the nest unless you just about hit them with the trolling motor. Needless to say you can catch them easily all day long. Doing something to protect it is a great thing, i know some peoplethat dont like it but they are ignorant in my opinion. Those smallies would be ravaged by people taking as many as they could during that time because its so easy. I have seen people illegally taking suring that time and get busted with they thought the game wardens werent watching during the middle of the week. Serves them right in my opinion.
 
In NJ it's catch & release during the spawn, that means if there is a tourney, it's a paper tourney, no livewell, catch-measure-release. It's the same as non-tourney fishing, so unless you ban fishing of any kind during spawn the tourneys are the least of the concern. Wouldn't it also be ineffective since spawning can be sporadic and at different times even on the same body of water?
 
my point is..... you could not ban fishing during the spawn.... they spawn all over the lake for several months....I've caught spawning fish as late as June in some lakes.......... I'm not against what your saying..... BASS will never do it..... It's all about the money now.... they need the big bag at the weigh in for all the sposors to be happy.....BASS is all about the money now...
 
Here's a big point: Not all fish bed in shallow, visible water at a specific time, date,... (i.e.) Spotted bass and Smallies can bed as deep as 15-20 ft., depending on light penetration. How do you know that the fish you caught is not in the spawn cycle? You don't. As with my post, it is ALL "guess-timations".



P.S. One of the LM's hanging on my wall was caught in the no moon phase, 1st week of August off Lanier. (10lb. 6oz.) Yep, full of roe, spawning in 78 deg.+ water in the back of a dirty, silt filled creek. She wouldn't revive and went to the Taxidermist, then the wall.
 
I think many people need to be more informed on this subject before they make statements against it.



Good article Tex.



In Texas bedding bass can be caught from February to May. I have caught many of em, most of em in water that i could not see them. Not all bass spawn at one time, so why would one tournament hurt the Bass population?



But I'm just a unethical fisherman that does not know anything.



 
Hey Mountain Man, things are changing here in NY. Pataki signed the Bill giving DEC the authority to regulate catch and release seasons in NY State. Now we're waiting to see what lakes tjeir going to designate. Off coarse there will be a bunch of public forums and all that. Then the DEC will designate what ever lakes will bring in the most money to their coffers.
 
here in fla on the lake in question these fish spawn from late dec til as late as april the best chance for biggest fish is from middle of jan til end of feb . no fishing during spawn? not going to happen. it dont hurt the fishing here yesterdays 1st place weight 27 lbs all off beds in the same area where the pros caught them they are there new fish every week this time of year cant speak for anywhere else in the country but here, been fishing here over 20 years i can... as a weekend tourny fisherman between jan and march if YOU cant bring in 22 lbs or better you anit going to cash a check..dont waste your time. As well as the pros, bass moving to fl owned by espn who is owned by disney .Watch next years classic in 2006 during the spawn and in central fl for bedding fish and big weights. Its all about big fish and money in the pros... i do not agree or disagree but since i have only lived here in fl thats how you fish and i love catching big fish weekly how many fish over 7lbs have you caught in 05 not on beds ?? i also agree with brain bedfish can be very tough picking up and droppin by tail ...my .02 for what its worth.......joe
 
Amazing how we read what we want to. Let's take a look at what this "Guide" says.....



"The idea that the 'Pro' tournament anglers catch so many bass that they pose a threat to the fishery is easily dispelled. Comparisons of nationwide data have shown that the average success rates of the professionals (in terms of fish caught per hour) are only very slightly better than non-tournament fishermen. (The average bass angler catches approximately 1.5 bass per eight-hour day, or slightly less than .19 bass per hour)."



So all of those tournaments that it takes 20-25-30 pound bags to win are Anomalies....after all .19 per hour?



"If a big female (bass) hasn't spawned yet and is released in good shape, then it is likely she will spawn," notes Clarence Bowling, biologist in charge of the Jasper, Texas fish hatchery"



Doesn't say WHERE released...if at the point of catch, I agree.



"The next day, they were moved another 400 miles to spawning ponds at the Dundee Hatchery in Wichita Falls. Although this study is not yet complete, initial indications are that there was a very high spawn rate."



Sure...put them in spawning ponds where the conditions are right. I assume all of your Tournaments do the same thing...oh wait, they are just dumped back in the lake....how many of those females do you think spawn...?



"Obviously, taking a spawn-ready female from the bed will, if she is killed, reduce the numbers of young bass produced."



Nuff said.



TOXIC
 
Pennsylvania does a fine job with their spawning regulations.

You can still bass fish during the spawn,but it is catch and IMMEDIATLY release.Also added last year,if they see you casting repeatedly into a bed,you can be fined.



And on lake Erie,you can keep one trophy over 20 inches.



 
Tox,



One point - .19lb is an average. How many guys in any given tournament get zeroed? How many get the 25lb bag? That is why the average is low. Believe me, I am one of the guys lowering the curve!



Rich D

 
That .19 is the average number of bass caught in an hour not the weight. I feel that there is nothing wrong with TX fishing during the spawn why not fish during the hottest times. Professional fishing has been going on for decades and I think they have done more good for the sport of Bass Fishing than they have done bad. I am not a TX fisherman but I see no problem with somebody going out and fishing during these times of the year. Its better that the pro's catch them and release them, somebody looking for table food and keeps a mess of 5-8lb bass loaded with eggs. I think there is more harm done by local pressure than a Pro will ever put on a body of water.
 
Toxic I agree with you completely . In fact of many of you have made good arguments for both sides of the coin . To be honest I rather not see anyone bed fishing either catch & release or open season ,however that would only happen in a ideal world . The average fisherman is not going to do any harm going out during the spawning season catch a few fish off of beds either on accident or on purpose . Where the problem comes in for me is when you have multiple tournaments on lakes in which you can have a fish possibly being caught numerous times in a short period of time . Does it harm the fish and affect it
 
You guys are reading way to much into this. This has been going on forever. The way you guys are talking, by the time you get finished passing laws on when you can fish and when you can't fish you will have a 2 week window to bass fish. The ice needs to melt up north so you guys can get back on the water...lol...
 
Who in their right mind can sit back and honestly say our fisheries are as good as they were when Mr. Scott started the tournament trail?? I've seen the pictures of a jon boat full of ice and all of the TX fish thrown in (granted they did eat them!!) How many times do you have to hear...



This lake gets hammered.



This lake gets a lot of prewssure.



This lake used to be good but it's been fished out.



This lake fishes tough.



Even the South isn't immune. Do you think there would be one bass left in Lake Fork, let alone trophy size bass, if it weren't a "managed" fishery? They force spawn those fish in hatcheries and set strict rules for fishing. Without management, I strongly believe most "big" bass fisheries would be gone. The Potomac was a waste dump and by management it was returned to the fishermen. How many lakes do you go out on and it is boat to boat with fishermen? And you honestly think that doesn't affect the fishery? You can't put your head in the sand and think that everything will be OK on it's own, it won't. We WILL deplete this resource if it is not fiercly protected.



Here's my nightmare....If we do not manage our resources, I'll see you at the trout pond at Bassarama, cause that's the only way you are gonna get to catch a fish. Maybe that's because I guide on a lake nicknamed "the dead sea" when most old timers remember in the late 70's and early 80's you could go out and catch 5 and 6 pounders ALL DAY LONG!! Well let's see, you've got 10 tournament trails putting on events there, Wednesday Tournaments, Tuesday Tournaments, scads of weekend bass fishermen, yada, yada, yada....and the sport just keeps getting more popular, gear gets better, electronics get better and so on. Remeber those stocked trout lakes where you paid a fee and they practiclly bit bare hooks. I do.



TOXIC

 
Is this the same thing that Michigan is doing for their TX dates and allowable catch?
 
not for this year....who knows what our dip **** dnr boys will do....
 
I have very strong feelings about taking ANY fish off the bed.:)
 
Climbing up on my soap box. . .



This has been a very interesting discussion. As usual, some topics are more important to some, than to others.



Personally, I don't want to attempt to catch a female trying to spawn on a bed. I also don't want to attempt to catch a male that is in the process of 'guarding eggs or fry'. That way, I give the fish the best chance of reproducing, in a somewhat normal way.



How do we best protect our fisheries? That's a very different question. They are trying the slot limit on Fork. Is it working, most would say yes. However, the slot limit did not protect the bass when the 'virus' hit some years ago.



On Wylie, the SC side has a 12" limit. On the NC side, it has a 14" limit - but you can have 2 12" fish in your creel. Wylie is one of the most fertile lakes in the region. But it's not a large lake, by any means. In several weeks, there will be a BFL tourney there. 200+ boats will be fishing (400 anglers). Each of those teams/individuals will likely pre-fish at least 2-3 days + the tournament. Is that too many boats for that body of water. Likely. I would hope that my state(s) (SC/NC) would at some regulations on restricting the size/number of tournaments that are held there. If you have a 200 boat tourney, you need to be on a lake that is xxxxx acres in size.



Also, in SC, it 'seems' that there are many here (in SC) that believe if you are fishing in a tourney, you can have as many fish in the livewell as you want - as long as you only take 5 to the scales. In short, cull at the ramp. That is a practice that will kill far too many fish. I personally will never have more than 5 in my well for any reason, during a tourney (LM - that is). I fished with someone several years ago that had 10-12 in his well unitl he culled (on the deck of the boat), about an hour before weigh-in. He didn't want to leave any fish on brushpiles, that someone else could possibly catch. Ugh!



I believe also, that there are far more sportsman fishing now, than have ever fished in the past. You simply cannot compare the catches made in tournaments in the 60's/70's/80's to what is caught now.



Bottom line. Take care of the fisheries in a responsible way. If you can't, then you should think about another sport. I believe that most here do this.



Stepping down off my soap box . . . .



Tex
 
BASS will NEVER do that!! C'mon folks,......think about it!! WHY do you think they moved the 2006 Classic to FEBRUARY!?? So they CAN fish bedding bass in the SOUTH and get the weights up!!!! WHY?? Cause the crowd LOVES big bags,...NOT the 10lb limits we see in August!! People want to see someone bring in a Dean Rojas Bag (45+lbs!!) on the last day and win by 6.0 oz. It makes for GREAT TV and that's ALL that BASS cares about since ESPN controls the purse strings now.



Mac



BTW Tox,....Smallies spawn up here from April-July!! So if you want to ban fishing during the spawn,....you won't be able to fish until August. Good luck selling that!!

 
Sheesh, I never said to ban fishing......I can't believe that fish spawn for 4 months....cripes Mac, that's your entire summer!! If that were the case then how does the DNR determine the "season" and when to open/close it?



I'm not the poster child for banning tournaments or shutting down lakes. I think there sould be a middle ground where there is an "official" observer/weighmaster on the TX boat and then you can put em' back!! I just don't like the practice of killing fish (whether is be a roe laden female who loses her spawn or just weigh in mortality) to see who caught the most. As unintentional as that may be, it is what happens. That is not right.



I'll be fishing the spawn and I will be bed fishing but not 1 that I catch will go in the well unless I plan to eat it.



TOXIC
 
Nope.....controlled harvest, not mass murder.....besides, I don't normally eat a bass unless I accidently kill it. There's better pickings in Crappie/Perch/Blugills all of which have an astronomic reproduction rate. Besides we are talking 300 boat tournaments not 2 or 3 eaters. There's a study, that says how you have to harvest some of the bass to keep the population healthy. It's like I said, you can find a study to back just about any opinion.



TOXIC
 
Not only do fish spawn more than once a year in Michigan they do it in Florida too. Almost 6 months of the year you can find spawning fish. In Michigan and other states you cannot even fish for them until the "authorities" say the spawn is over. That cannot be managed and there is no study that states a lake will be hurt by fishing for bedding bass. There ARE studies that say individual beds would be hurt, but to say a lake will be hurt is assuming that ALL fish that are spawning will be caught and that is not the case. There have been studies in Ohio that determine the biggest determining factor of spawning success is the wind and weather. Some years the wind and weather is not conducive for the spawn. Other years it is prolific. It only takes a small number of fish to have a successful spawn to maintain a lakes population of bass. That is why mother nature has them have thousands of babies at one time.



Personally I had the same thoughts of Tox, but I started to read studies and learn what was known, not what I felt.



Bottom line is that people that fish will NEVER catch all the spawning fish, you cant see deep enough in most bodies of water.



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