Big SUV'S and Gasoline

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

A while back there was a post in regard to high gasoline prices and big SUV's.

I decided to do my own survey so for the last week I have been "watching" large SUV'S... Not smaller SUV's but the likes of the Escalade, Expedition, Yukon, Suburban, Denali, Tahoe, Navigator, etc.

I finally got to a hundred so now the result.



33 of the 100 had NO tow package what-so-ever, or at least none visible.



Of the ones I could see up close, another 17 have NEVER had anything attached to the receiver, and another 12 "probably" had never had anything hooked up.



As this survey was taken during work hours, these vehicles were not even used for that.



And, boy am I going to get slammed by a couple, it seems to me that the larger the SUV, the smaller the woman is that is driving it")



So the result.. Probably 62 out of a hundred "probably" had never towed anything and are used for basic transportation.



Bill

 

[John DeGeorge]

And this surprises you?

 

[Larry Harp]

Bill, don't you have a job?

;>))



Harpo

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Harpo, NO

 

[Max Neathamer2]

I agree.. Was sitting in the Dental office today and saw 6 Suv's.. And I dont mean stock!! These had 4-6 inch lifts.. Sand Tires etc... 5 of the 6 were driven by so called "Trophy wives".. And they were all messing with the radios or there makeup or on the phones.. Dont think they were heading for the desert or a Mudhole..



Max <><

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

My sis-in-law has an Expedition, she has 2 kids and uses it every day. They also ride share for soccer, dance, etc.. Don't judge too quick although I agree there is probably a lot of "under-use" of these vehicles. I also don't fault someone for wanting to be safer on the roads. I would want my wife and child in something that would protect them if they got slammed by something of any size. As long as I can afford the fuel it is my choice. Remember, we hall have a choice.



TOXIC

 

[Steve Rizza]

Bill,

how many do you think have actually ever used the four wheel drive?

That's alot of extra weight and drag for somthing you don't need.



I agree with you Tox.

It just makes me wonder why some people buy some of these things though.

My wife wants a SUV.

Why?

I have no idea. The van is plenty big enough. She wont drive if she sees one snowflake. She scares the crap out of me when she drives my truck.



But she wants a 4x4 suv.



Oh,well.......

 

[Larry Harp]

Just yesterday here in OKC two teenagers were killed when the Honda they were riding in lost control during a street race and crossed over into oncoming traffic. They hit an Expedition head on. The driver of the Expedition was treated and released while the two in the Honda were dead at the scene.



On the subject of four wheel drive. I have it on my Jeep GC and will never have another vehicle without it. Not so much for the 2 or 3 snowstorms we get here but for getting through mud at a construction site, pulling up off algae encrusted boat ramp, or just driving through a driving rain storm. My 4.0 six cylinder gets around 18 to 20 mpg, without the boat.



Harpo



p.s. Bill that really was interesting info. I hope you know I was just jacking with ya.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I knew Toxic would jump in because we talked about this

I believe in choice also and how anyone spends their money is up to them and ok with me. I'm not judging, just making an observation and a good Mini-Van would hold more kids, etc., than an SUV. As for safety, that becomes relative even to the degree of getting an Armored Personel Carrier.

I agree with Steve, I just don't know why some people want these things?

AND, I'm not leaving men out either. My neighbor does custom auto interiors and he has a Ford F-550 over there right now. It's so big the guy had to buy two caps and have them put together to fit the bed of that truck. Guess what, NO tow package and it's not used for any kind of work.

I don't know what you mean Harpo unless it was the work crack Hey, I'm semi-retired and darn proud of it



Bill

 

[C C]

Bill, please adjust your numbers since I just bought a SUV and will be pulling my boat with it.



We needed something else for our new business and was going to get a BMW X3 or 5 but they can't tow much so I traded the 02 Ram and stuck with what works for me, the Durango and of course it has a Hemi. Weeeeeee

 

[Bryan McDonough]

I'm not judging anyone either... Just a simple observation.



I drive into work with my 2004 Chevy 2500 HD crew cab Duramax every day. I don't make enough to afford another car to drive into work with and just leave the truck for towing. I do remove my hitch when i drive into work. I tow on weekends mainly the boat, and occassionaly a trailer. 2 week i loaded up approx 750lbs or rocks in the bed of my truck for some home landscaping.



I get better gas mileage than a Toyota Sienna right now.

I sit so high i can see over the cars in front of me on the freeway which allows me to react quicker to traffic problems. If a Honda decides to crash into me head on... My wife, 3 kids and i will walk away... hopefully.



I might have been one of those people you saw driving by.



You can get terrible gas mileage in any car, i don't see a problem with people buying SUVs.



Just a thought.

 

[Mike Moss]

Its the ones that pass me on the highway doing 30 over the speed limit that kill me.At least yours is an oil burner and not a 454 gas engine like the guys I work with.When it hits 3 bucks a gallon you will see alot of the I didnt realy need one trucks for sale.The big suv should have came with an oil burner in it.I wouldnt have one with out it.Even if gas was 99 cents a gallon.There are people paying for gas with their lives over there.Thats just to damn high!

 

[Bob G.]

Cass,



That is sweet!



I like the TV commercial with the Hemi powered Dodge Magnum RT! I showed it to my wife and she refuses to drive a "station wagon", no matter how bad a$$ it is!



Are you coming up for the Champlain mini-rally?



Bob G.

 

[Jim B]

I dont have a problem with people buying SUV's either. Drive what you want, its a free country. But when people claim they are "safer" or "better in the snow" i think thats a load of you know what. They are keeping up with a trend is all. I dont believe suv's are any better in the snow then a good car. For instance the best vehicle i have ever driven in the snow other then a snowmobile is my sisters old Audi a4 quatro awd. That car was like a tank in the snow, far better then my 4wd truck. The saftey thing is really a myth. Sure in a small car vs suv accident the small car suffers but the if you replace the suv with a big car you get the same results. The Insurance Institute For Highway Saftey has all the data on deaths in crashes. The vehicle with the most deaths in single car accidents is pickup trucks of all types followed closely by suv's. The reason for this is that trucks are not required to meet the same saftey standards as a car is, rollovers are also a major factor. I would much rather hit a pole in my sisters Volvo then i would in my Dakota.



Like i said i have no problem with SUV's, I have owned two myself. What i dont like is SUV drviers, a specific group of them. The ones i hate drive extremely aggressively, they have that get out of my way attitide because they think they are "safer" in thier big suv. These are the first people you will see flipped over on thier roof in a snow storm too. These people are generally women in thier 30's and 40's with kids. These are the soccer moms and in my opinion they are a menace to the road with a long list of bad habits. They drive agressive, they tailgate, go 25+ over the speed limit, change lanes without looking, run red lights, blow stop signs, speed in parking lots etc, etc... Check out the link below for soem really interesting reading on this and other saftey related subjetcs.
http://www.hwysafety.org/

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Ok Cass, "Out of one-hundred and ONE" LOL.. Nice looking ride.



I don't care who drives what either. I said that before. I just have a hard time understanding why.



Bill

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

You are gonna get bad and rude drivers no matter what they drive. A lot of the SUV's get noticed more. I commute in a wrangler 6 HO cyl. and get about 17mpg. I drive the truck when towing and to make sure I don't kill someone else on the road by over weighting a smaller tow vehicle for the sake of gas mileage.



Could I commute in a Honda Civic....sure...will I ever.....not on your life. Do I want my wife and child driving around in one.....nope.



TOXIC

 

[Rich Stern]

Well, before we crucify anyone for "not needing" a large SUV, how many of us "need" a boat with an outboard motor that gets between 1 and 4 MPG, and "need" to tow it around behind our trucks getting 8 to 13 MPG while doing so? Few of us make our living with our boats.



Maybe that soccor mom drives a troop of six or seven kids every weekend, and they don't fit in a minivan. Or maybe they haul antiques in the back for a refinishing business. Who am I to judge?

 

[Staci Matheis]

My sister is one of those "trophy wives" and drives one of the big SUV's without hitch and rarely even sees the snow..... A few years ago, I sat with her while we waited for her 6 year old to get out of an exclusive school. About 1/2 of the mothers were driving the big SUV's - the rest were in BMW's, Lexus's and Mercedes..... I asked her why she didn't just get a mini-van for hauling her kids to soccer practice; it would carry more kids, be easier for them to get in and out of, give them more room and be more fuel-efficient..... She curled up her nose at me and exclaimed "I wouldn't be caught dead in one of those. You DON'T drive around (posh area's name deleted) in a mini-van."

 

[Mikel Stephens]

I'm just tired of all the stories I see on the news about SUV's killing people in accidents. It would seem that SUV's have a mind of their own and often cruise down the highway like hunters...awaiting an oportunity to pounce on a honda.

You don't hear: "A family of three was killed today when the father pulled out in front of a Excursion"



You hear things like: "A Ford Excursion killed a family of three in an auto accident today."



Same things with trains. They are just as evil as any SUV.



Ride on SUV's!!!

 

[C C]

Hey Mikel, I think you are on to something, but honestly I think that like Staci explained there are alot of people that buy the big ones for status and what makes it bad if they can't drive the land yacht which may be part of the reason for so many accidents.



I sit back and laugh when I see a soccer mom trying to park the land barge without a clue. Even better is at the grocery store, forget about backing it in to park.



I to don't care what someone drives but I do think they should take a driving class or test before they can buy one. LOL



Cass

 

[Michael S]

My wife's Tahoe never pulls the boat....but I bought it for here because of our two kids....and I know it is a good and safe car to drive around town in....and her Tahoe on the Hwy gets 19.8mpg....But the biggest factor for me was how safe would her and the kids be if she got into a wreck. Its always been my belief that the bigger car in a wreck always seems to fair better than the little one.

 

[Marke Cicero]

Am I to believe that two SUV's will never crash into each other? Who is safer then? What if an SUV hits a Mac truck?

Do SUV owners believe that the only other vehicles on the road are small Japanese cars???



I believe that SUV's provide false sense of security. One of the simplest equasions in physics is F=MA.

Force = Mass X Acceleration. Larger vehicles hit objects with greater force. There are so many factors in an accident that affect the out come that no one should honestly believe that they are "safer" simply because they are in an SUV.



There is no substitute for paying attention and driving safely.

 

[Michael S]

Marke I agree with some of what you say....but if my wife gets hit by another SUV its on the same level....if my wife is driving a small car and gets hit by a large SUV from a side impact...then the SUV will hit her in the windows of her small car....which is what is killing most people in cars that get in wrecks with SUV's....Is a SUV completely safe no....is a SUV safer than a mid size car yes....no question about it.....

 

[Donald Fruge]

My wife drives an SUV. We have two kids, although they are both small it will be and has been very handy for hauling kids and stuff. We have a fifth wheel camper that I pull with my truck. When we go camping, it is very nice for her to be in a vehicle that can pull the boat, and haul extra items needed for the trip. I love it she loves it and her company pays for her gas!!!!!!!



It was one of the smartest moves we have made in the vehicle department. I do agree that there are some people who drive them as a status thing and never use the vehicle to is potential. My wife drives one b/c its necessary, she would much prefer driving a "status" (bmw or lexus) type vehicle but I told her we don't have "status" LOL



She now calls her future vehicle the mid life crisis vehicle..LOL



Wolf



By the way how many of you really need those big shiney glass boats....LOL

 

[Jim B]

Jimbob, Suv's are safer in an accident that involves a big suv and a small car and thats all. all that mass that the helps the suv in that type of crash can work against it in a colision with say a wall or a tree or a telephopne pole. In that case the mid size car would probably fare better.



i would also bet if a big suv like a tahoe got hit in the side by another big suv the one that got t-boned would be no better off because suv's are trucks and they dont have to have the same level of side impact protection as a car and most have much lass.

 

[Michael S]

Well the only real question is...if had the choice would you want yourself your wife or your kids riding in a SUV or a Honda Civic.....and all cars, SUV, and trucks have to all meet government standards for impacts....so I know all things are not made equal...but I would find it hard to believe that a car has a lot better side impact rating....I am not saying there are not cars with better rating,but I doubt that there are huge differences.....

 

[Tony Payne]

well, it also comes down to the driver...



Many people (and this was alluded to earlier) get the impression that because they are in an SUV, that they no longer need to take adequate precautions in inclemet weather...



"Oh, I got 4 wheel drive now, that Ice aint gonna slow me down"



It ain't the vehicle, it's the idiot behind the wheel that can be a problem in these cases.

 

[Jim B]

Jimbob Cars and light trucks have different impact standards. Light trucks ( large suvs fall under this catagory) do not have to meet the same level of impact protection as a normal passenger car does, theyare not built the same.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

"Status" = Buying things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like!



I drive what works for me and is affordable. I could care less what the Jone's think, they're not making my payments. But a lot of people do drive them for status. You wanna impress me? Drop you kids off to school in a '71 Plymouth 'Cuda with a 440 Magnum, twin 4-barrell Hollies, straight glass packs, 4 wheel disc brakes, independant wishbone suspension, and Mickey Thompson's. The HP and speed of a 70's muscle car with the handling of todays sedans and 4 MPG baby!

 

[Michael S]

Ok Jim B



But what good does side impact protection do for you in car if you are hit by a SUV which does not hit you in the side where all the protection is but they hit you in the windows of the car. I am not saying that SUV's are the safest things on the road..and I agree its all about how people drive them....but as long as I can afford it I will put my family in a big automoble....

 

[Jim B]

Jimbob, who knows? possibly the same carnage that would happen if you got hit by 18 wheeler in an suv. Im not bashing SUV's and im not against them. like i said i have owned them and will most likley buy another someday. Not because they are "safer" than a car but because it may fit my needs/lifestyle better then something else. Much the same reason i drive a 4 door pickup today, it fits my needs. All im trying to convey is the saftey factor is a myth, you are no safer on the road in an suv then you are a good car. And you are right its not the vahivle its the people who drive them and in my area almost every urban soccer mom with an SUV drives like an a**hole because they think they are indestructable. Sadly it couldnt be further from the truth. Like i said above if i had to choose a vehicle to hit a telephone pole with i would take my sisters Volvo s70 over my much bigger/heavier Dodge Dakota QC 4x4 any day of the week. Why? its built to take crashes much better then my truck is plain and simple. Also having been T-boned while driving a full sized truck(same frame as a suv) i can attest to how much damage can occour in the right accident. To put it briefly if i got hit in th edrivers side i would not be here to type this message today and luckly i had just dropped off my girlfriend or she would have been dead. What hit me will suprise you. A toyota camry and the driver walked away.

 

[Michael S]

Jim B



I have also had T-bone exprence and the car I was driving was T-boned on the passenger side and if my wife and kid would have been in the car they would not be here today...and I was hit by a full size chevy truck....so after I got my check for my totalled car I went out and bought the wife and kids a bigger vechile. I don't know which concrete jungle yall travel in but I see alot more concert barriors and cars and trucks then I see telephone poles. My chances of getting rear ended or rear ended somebody else are a lot greater than running into a telephone pole. And I feel in those situations a larger vechile would protect my family better.....The truck that t-boned me had hood and front grille damage...the guy didn't even have it towed away he drove it to the body shop....



Jim B just curious what type of truck where you driving...

 

[Jim B]

Jimbob at the time i was driving a 96 Chevy 1500 regular cab z71. Both vehicles were totalled, the passenger door was more of less where the center console should have been. The part that sucks is the truck wwas just a few months old, after i got a check form the ins co i got a 97 blazer and proceded to hit a deer three weeks after i got it and had 5k of damage on a truck with 700 miles on it.



One more thing to illustrate my point. Take a look at these two pictures of a 40mph offset frontal crash test and decide which one you would rather put your family in.



This is a 1997-2003 f150, keep in mind the expedition is besed off the same exact chassis

 

[Jim B]

or this Volvo s60 sedan. Keep in mind they were both going 40mph

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Amazing photo's Jim. I would never have "thunk" it..



Bill

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

That's a FORD for ya!!LOL!!!! By the way, SUV's (I can't remember wich ones) are going to be coming out with the side curtain airbags.



And for you accident guys.....I did head on a semi, in a Jeep Wrangler, at highway speeds. Both my girlfriend AND I survived. I got to spend a month in a coma but I'm still here. 3 things saved my life 1. Seat belts 2. Roll bars and, 3. The biggest thickest down ski jacket you have ever seen!! I actually figure eighted the steering wheel and hooked it up under my rib cage, they had to cut me out. That's why I will always own a jeep (and the original down jacket is in my closet).



TOXIC

 

[Michael S]

Jim B



Wasn't those years of Ford vechiles the worst frame rating Ford has had in a long time. I don't know if that was the best choice for an example....the worst Truck and SUV frame against one of the best car frames...

 

[C C]

Tox, my new Durango has Side Curtain Air bags and multi stage front air bags, of course I have no clue what that means, but must be a good thing. One feature that I like is the beeping sound that won't stop when the driver fails to use a seat belt. My partner never wears a seat belt and I am always bugging her to wear one, now she has little choice after 5pmh the beeper goes off until the belt is buckled. LOL



JimB, scary pics but also realize that Volvo has always been ahead in the safety area. I would be interested to see other ratings on US made vehicles. I would hope that there has been an improvement.



Cass

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Having owned Jeeps and off roaded a fair amount it is second nature for me to buckle up. My truck beeps for the belts (including the passenger) and will also beep if you leave the turn signal on (that's for when I get a little older and move to Florida!!LOL!).



BTW, Crash tests IMHO, "rarely" represent real world situations. There are many more forces and circumstances at work on the street.



TOXIC

 

[Jim B]

Jimbob, that same frame is still in production today as the expedition. And yes there are better trucks out there then the ford. The current f150 is one of the safest trucks on the road but until the revap the expedition it still uses that old chassis design. Its also a great comparison because those two vehicles cost about the same money when nicely equipt.



Cass here is a chevy malibu in the same test, it looks better then the volvo believe it or not.



Tox, while a agree that a crash tests arent always "real world" they are a very good indicator of how a vehicle would stand up in a real accident.

 

[Jim B]

and for comparison heres the current model chevy silverado(same frame as a tahoe)

 

[Michael S]

well it looks like Jim B has really done his research...thats some good info Jim.....but I know my chevy malibu did not look that good when it got T-boned.



Nothing can take the place of being a good defensive driver...staying on your toes and being able to react will hopefully keep lots of us out of those types of situations.

 

[TrepMan]

Bill - I too look at the trucks and SUV's for hitches and the like. But I think it's more like the other folks have said on choice. Some of it is safety, my wife drove a 96 Dodge Ram Club Cab because she felt SAFE in it driving on the crazy Atlanta highways, and did NOT want a minivan because of the stigma!!! LOL of course she's now on Minivan #3!!! BWWWAAAA



but think of it this way, why would someone spend $80 - 100k for a Viper, Porche, and the like with top speeds of 140mph + when 99% of the US highways have a 70-75mph max?? Why not if they want speed get a Subara WRX STI or a Mitzu Evo with 175-300hp with 0-60mph in 5 seconds for 1/3 - 1/4 the price? because they CAN!!!



Me, i'd LOVE the new Dodge Magnum with a Hemi but they only rate the towing capacity at 1000lbs BECAUSE (my opinion here) they WANT you to buy the Durango, Ram or Dakota!!!