So why are we having trouble with E-10 fuel today?

[Michael Meier]

Fuel with too high (unsafe) levels of ethanol alcohol. Running on gas with over 10 % alcohol in a marine engine will cause performance problems, and can also cause permanent damage to your marine motor. Understanding the dangers and effects of alcohol gas, in addition to following all the necessary marine fuel system precautions, is now necessary to avoid any problems with E10 gasoline.



There has been much controversy, misinformation and confusion since the recent (2006) increased distribution of ethanol gasoline in the United States. Recent marketing gimmicks by some fuel additive product companies, have confused boaters even more. These ads falsely claim their new products can "fix" or repair ethanol water-contaminated fuel...Phase-separated fuel can not be fixed, and it must be discarded.

Note!! Additives do not correct/neutralize/fix E-1o fuel. It is what it is and if it get moisture in it (90 days old) then the 10 micron filter is the only way to save it.



Marine manufacturer fuel recommendations (eg. owners manuals), which in the past, often warned against using alcohol fuels, now document that up to 10 % ethanol in gas is acceptable. All marine authorities agree, that running on ethanol alcohol above 10 % will cause motor damage and/or performance issues with gas-powered engines, and it is always unsafe to run on contaminated fuel. Prevention is your best weapon against ethanol gas.



Ethanol Fuel Background:

E10, Is a gasoline blended with up to 10 % ethanol alcohol and is now in widespread use in the U.S. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, is made from corn, sugar and other grains.

Alcohol is an excellent cleaner, solvent, anti-freeze and most important, ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb large amounts of water. Government regulations and laws for ethanol fuel use and labeling differ from state-to-state, and are constantly changing.



The most serious boat engine problems, resulting from ethanol E10 use, have mainly occurred due to illegal amounts of ethanol (over 10 %) being incorrectly added at the gas station pumps, by the delivery truck drivers.. Stay with the name brand fuel stations.



Many ethanol problems, reported by boaters appears to be due to their lack of knowledge/information on how to properly manage alcohol fuels. Many boat engine breakdowns in recent months are directly related to the mismanagement of E10 gas.

Your marine mechanic may not even suspect or test the fuel as a possible cause of breakdowns. Many marine engine repair businesses have flourished as a result of ethanol gas engine damage. Several older engines can not use any fuels that contains alcohol. Eg. Certain fiberglass tanks, mostly manufactured prior to 1992, will decompose from alcohol. Fortunately newer outboard engines (past 5 years) have been designed to be more compatible with alcohol fuels.



Reasons Boat Engines Have More Problems with Ethanol Gas:

Boaters, often store gas in tanks longer than recommended for E10 (90 days).

Cars, unlike boats, usually replace fuel every week or two, which will successfully prevent the possibility of water-contamination/phase separation. Boat engines live in a water environment - Alcohol gas loves to absorb water. Ethanol E10 gas can absorb large amounts of water into the fuel tank, MTBE in conventional gasoline did not. Plus, boat engines usually last longer than cars. Still owning and using a marine engine from the 1970's or 1980's is not uncommon. * These older engine parts and tanks were not usually designed or tested to withstand the damaging effects of alcohol gas. * Several older marine engines (made prior to 1992) have plastic and rubber parts, and fiberglass tanks that are NOT compatible with E10 alcohol fuel.



Signs and symptoms of ethanol problems and damage include:

Stalling, prematurely worn engine parts, rusting, clogging of fuel filters and carburetor jets, release of gunk and sludge thro

 

[Tornado]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

We have got to get our arms around this problem. Over on BBC, there is a picture that one of the marine mechanics put up of what the fuel (not old fuel mind you) looked like when he pumped out a tank due to engine performance problems. It is downright scary!!! He put it in glass bottles and it looks like the seperation you get with salad oil and tap water. Crazy scary!! He also posted a pic of the 10m filter that was in the motor. I just read the back of the fuel treatment that I regularly use in my motor (merc fuel treatment and stabilizer) and it recommends it for every tank of ethanol fuel. I wonder if it's doing anything? I feel a little better knowing my merc, per mike's article has the 10m filter although I've never seen it, of course I've never looked for it either which means I've never changed it. There's gonna be a chitstorm if all these marine engines start goin south from e-10. I predict a class action lwsuit. Against who I don't know.



TOXIC

 

[JP Heintzman]

Mike,



Based on what you are saying, if I am storing my boat for more than 90 days, should I drain the tank and run the engine until it uses all the fuel in the system? I usually just had my son crank the engine w/ muffs in the driveway once or twice a month to keep things going, but it won't be driven on a lake until probably November or December. The boat is in Georgia right now, a place with high humidity. I had been having him top off the tank and add a bottle of stabil, figuring the full tank would prevent condensation. Any advice from experienced crew would be greatly appreciated. The last thing I want after spending a year in Korea is to come home to a boat engine that gives me nothing but fits when I want to be chasing the bucketmouths!:angry:



JP

 

[Jim B]

Tox,

I read that thread over on the BBc and i think there is more to the story then whats being told over there. It looks like whats described as "phase seperation" and without knowing all the facts its tough to say why it happened. The owner could have had water in his tank, or bought from a station with old gas or water in thier tanks. He could have had some other stuff inthe tank. I dont remember him mentioning how long it was in the tank either.



Personally i dont think E10 is all doom and gloom for marine engines. Up here in New England E10 is old news and its been around for at least the last 3 fishing seasons mandated for all grades and at a lot of stations for longer then that. I have had no choice but to run it and it has not been a problem for me. I put a ton of hours on my old xr6 on e10 fuel and i never had an issue with it. The only precautions i took was not buying gas i wont use quickly and i drained the tank in the fall when i put the boat away. Other then that i just ran it and ran it a ton. I never put any additives in it or installed a watert seperating filter or anything. I havent heard of any issues form anyone i know that owns a bassboat in my area either.



Dont get me wrong i dont like having to run this stuff with the potential for this seperation crap but i think a little prevention like not buying more then you can use quick goes a long way.

 

[JR F]

Scary....

 

[Michael Meier]

Guys,

This E10 is here to stay and it's just not as bad as most folks make it out to be.

1. Additives for "E10 cure" are bull sh*t. Save your $$$$ for some chatter baits

2. Fuel with E10 does separate after time (90 days is an estimate) so run it out in the boat or pump it over in the wife's car, but don't keep it in your tank for long periods of time. Or you can fish 1-3 days a week (my approach) and never worry about it.

3. A full tank of E10 is much better than anything less. It will suck moisture into the fuel if the tank has head space. I fill mine till it's sitting in the neck. I do the same with the tractor mower and the pressure washer and the tiller and the blower and the edger and the chain saws, etc.....

4. Less dino remains and more corn juice per gallon equal less HP per gallon. You are going to lose some speed and it's going to run a little ragged at low RPM's. (carbon fibre reeds help this).

The problems you have heard of or seen anywhere (including BBC board) lead back to the above issues and the lack of a 10 micron filter in the fuel system.

Dino/corn fuel is the standard now.

 

[Michael Meier]

Based on what you are saying, if I am storing my boat for more than 90 days, should I drain the tank and run the engine until it uses all the fuel in the system?

Yes. Or at least drain the top 2/3's and use in the mowers/wife's car. Dispose of the bottom 1/3.

 

[Michael Meier]

I feel a little better knowing my merc, per mike's article has the 10m filter although I've never seen it, of course I've never looked for it either which means I've never changed it.

Scott,

Drivers side of the engine you should have a screw-on filter with a sensor that is screwed into the bottom and a wire plugged into it. It's about 3" in dia. and 4.5" high. You need to be changing that pretty regular. Send me an email and I'll give you a few tips on this.

Mike

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Mike,



I pull that cannister every year and dump it, I thought it was just the water seperator but now that you mention it, it does have the filter element in there kinda like an oil filter. I guess next time I will just replace it!!



TOXIC

 

[XMYTRUCK XMYTRUCK]

Quick question you stated that "Merc's have had the 10M filter and water sensor since 1995" I have a 2005 4 STR bigfoot and I have heard a couple of mechanics that a water separating fuel filter and the fuel filter that comes with the merc are night day difference and the standard fuel filter will do nothing for water in your fuel. Also where did U hear that 10M fitter and water sensor comnes with mercs I never saw that statement in my manually.



thx



x

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

X



Mine is on the engine, drivers side and obviously doubles as the water seperator and the 10m. I thought it was only the water. This is from Mike's post above:

Make sure your motor is equipped with a water separating fuel filter.

Newer engine models have them, other engines may or may not. The installation of a water separator in the fuel line will help with small amounts of water. Some marine engines are also equipped with water sensors. The Merc's have had the 10M filter and water sensor since 1995. Check fuel system for contaminants and clogging and replace your fuel filter often. Fuel filters should be replaced at least every 50 -100 hours normally. E10 is not normal so I change my Merc's fuel filter at least 3 times a year and add Sea-Foam for cleaning carbon off the rings/not for the fuel issue.

TOXIC

 

[XMYTRUCK XMYTRUCK]

Mine is on the engine, drivers side and obviously doubles as the water seperator and the 10m. I thought it was only the water. This is from Mike's post above:

Thx Toxic so the small fuel filter on the drivers side is the water separator and the 10m if I understand you correctly?



thx

X

 

[Michael Meier]

It is a screw on canister that has a screw in probe in the bottom. When you get a new one (BPS off the shelf in the marine section) you will take the set screw out of the canister (installed for painting) and install the sensor until it is snug (tapered pipe threads) and then install on the engine with a strap wrench and reconnect the probe wire. This probe goes to the LED box on the front of the engine. Pump the bulb to get fuel filled into the filter and your set. Change it at least a couple times a year. That was easy!!!:lol::lol::lol: