Diawa cuts Brauer, Yelas and Cochran

[Bill McElroy]

HHmmm,.....Any bets Denny ends up with a BPS contract?? Just a guess on my part.....or maybe Quantum?!...stay tuned!:unsure::blink:

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

That's odd....some really big names in the sport. What do you think the reason is? I gotta tell you, as far as my sponsors, things are getting tough. Nothing concrete but I can feel the belts tightening, even BPS who you would think would be better insulated against this type of thing has "asked more" of me this year. CastAway has cut waaaay back. You better be pulling your weight (and I am) with Yamamoto, or they will take a close look at you. SPRO/Gamakatsu even with the success of their new baits is going through some major changes. I don't think this is just the "industry", the economy is getting to these companies if you ask me.



TOXIC

 

[Mini]

The industry has been hit for a few years. I think with the pull back of sponsor dollars at the highest level you are seeing the other companies copy that.



As for Diawa....they will see the errors in their ways.



I would like to see Denny come on board with BPS. A new signature series from him would be a hot seller.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Some really big names have been getting cut from several companies. Deals aren't what they used to be, at any level. I think part of it has to do with where the sport went.



Years ago, when I first got into this, pros had "sponsors". They would provide them with gear - some free, some at a reduced cost. I talked to several of them back then, and although they couldn't disclose what they actually got, I know a lot of them that were fishing the pro circuit that weren't getting everything completely free. Some weren't getting any thing free, and got very few discounts. Others got substancial discounts, but not free.



Then, all of a sudden, free items started flowing like water. Pros started getting things thrown at them left and right. Items that have nothing to do with fishing started showing up on Pro's shirts. Endorsements flowed, product sponsors provided entry fees and some provided a regular stipen. As the industry became flooded with all this stuff, I think people (Pro's, Pro-Staffers, Field Staffers, Field Testers - top to bottom) started to forget where their "bread was buttered". I know I have been partially guilty of it myself at times when I get frustrated that product that I ordered doesn't show up for months, etc... I have to smack myself in the face and tell myself "There are plenty of people out there that would love to have the deals you have - don't look a gift horse in the mouth". It still gets frustrating some times - You bust your butt at every show they ask you to go to, sell everything they want you to sell, and then you order product, and wait for it for months - in one case - a year. But in the end, the fact remains - I'm getting a discount on these products that some people could only dream about. So therefore, I shut up, thank my sponsors gratefully, and trudge on.



This isn't the first time that Daiwa and some big named pro's have parted company. I was just as shocked when Guido and Dion parted ways with Daiwa. Remember - we have no way of knowing who parted with who until the whole story is told. I know several companies that are cutting back on what they give the pros. Maybe they gave them notice that they were providing less to them this year - product, money, etc... and the three pro's decided to seek sponsorship elsewhere. Or... maybe Daiwa did cut them. Who knows?



Toxic is right about "pulling your weight" - especially right now. With all the cutbacks I've been seeing, I'm fishing all I can, working every show I can, and selling all I can, everyday, in every way. If it works out and they keep me on for another year, then great. If not, at least I can say that I put forth a huge effort to remain valuable, and it must not be my performance that caused me to be let go... I hope.



BTW... where did you hear that? I'd like to see / read the story.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[TritonGlenn]

Oh! Found it over on BassFan. Guess they were let go... and since Daiwa reps aren't commenting, guess we can only speculate as to why. Here is the link:



http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?ID=2717



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Bill Hamilton]

OK Guys! I am totally clueless when it comes to sponsors. I would think that MOST people go after the sponsors and not the other way around (at least initially). Do YOU really believe in the "products" that you hawk to others or are you really just looking for sponsorship and "freebies". I know a few people on this board who are sponsored by some organizations and some work their butts off for them but do the pros really do much in the way of "working" for the sponsor?



It just seems that sponsorship is a multi-million dollar business and the little guy is believing in ALL the hype about what to buy just 'cause so and so says it is the best stuff in the world.



I like Bill Dance but he would sell his soul just to make more money. Some of the stuff he sells is absolutely worthless.



Please chime in and tell me I am full of it!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Everywhere... And, I mean everywhere... The top tier Pro deals are shrinking... Major sponsors are now paying for "performance only"... And, the deals to just "fish" are vaporizing... Mercury and Lund pulled out of the PWT (The oldest, started by In_fisherman, Walleye Circuit with the very well known guys like Parsons and Gofron).



Word on the street (and in the new sponsor contracts I hsve reviewed) are that they are all lowering front end and paying for performance (top 10 finishes and stage appearance, TV impressions) and putting more money into the lower tiers where guys spend money... They all appear to be trying to leverage their promotional dollars. BASS lost a boat sponsor... Daiwa drops a number of Pros...



There are always shifts of some kind every winter, but this winter it seems to be in the way companies are allocating sponsor dollars. I have long agreed with Tox that the companies are comng to realize that the efficient money is spent where it will create sales... With guides and local circuits. You can throw out $5000 to ten local circuits or $50,000 to one XYZ top tier event... Those ten local circuits will payout $4000 in $1000 checks to say big fish in four events... Ten times, that is 40 chances to make an impression, an impression with a local paper/TV show, etc. Or, One time at the XYZ event... And, with a Guide... Say, $1000 in wholesale equipment, worth $2000 cash... He puts that equipment in the hands of his clients and says; "here's a good fishing widget, I use it"... That customer is likeley to go out and buy that same equipment... A Guide might do that 60 times, or more, in a season... Maybe 6 to 10 sales are generated... Do that 40-50 times (250-500 sales) over and that is a pretty good return for the dollars invested...

 

[Lonnie Conner]

Hey Bill, I just got done reading Mike IaConelli's book and he admits in one part of his book that he sells his sponsers product but he does'nt necessarly use it.,

 

[TritonGlenn]

Bill,

I started out in 1994 with my first sponsor - Daiwa. It was offered to me on a Field-Staff level through a rep group - Rogers Southeast. As I loved Daiwa rods and reels, I readily agreed to take the sponsorship. Less than two weeks later, I had a package sent to my house from Rubbermaid, which at the time, was making tackle boxes. The offer was for a Field-Staff level position also - just sign on the dotted line and return the contract. I did so, as I was just starting out, and needed tackle boxes. One week later, I was offered a field-tester position with Luhr Jensen, which I knew absolutely nothing about. I was skeptical, and held back from signing the contract and sending it back. After talking to a few people about how great how great the LJ Speed Trap was, I decided to try them out for one year - after all, if I didn't like them, I could not renew the contract the following year. Next thing I know, I'm getting boxes of stuff at my house from all of the rep groups products - VMC hooks, Rubbermaid Tackle Boxes, Yozuri Lures, Edge Plastics, etc... some with contracts, some without.



I was overwhelmed at first, but under careful guidance from another long-time Daiwa pro-staffer, I decided to accept some offers, and decline others. My friend told me "Don't be a product whore... If you don't like the product, don't take it". That was the BEST advice anyone could have given me. Those offers that I took, I made sure I wrote thank you letters to. Those offers that I DID NOT take - I wrote thank you letters to also, but also wrote a very well thought out "I am sorry that I cannot accept the position to promote your products at this time" letter also. "Don't burn bridges" was another piece of advice I adhered to. One of the products that I initially turned down with a polite letter, wrote me back two years later to show me their "new" product, which I had recently started using, so I accepted their contract that year.



There is not a single product that I currently promote that I do not believe in. That is not to say that I don't fish competitors products when conditions dictate - There are times that my sponsors don't make a particular lure or size / color that I need. It is at those times that I use a competitors product, but I do so tactfully - you won't see a bag of my competitors product laying out on my front deck, and if someone asks me what I am fishing, I'll respond with a generic term "A shallow diving chartreuse and brown crankbait". I don't lie about it - that is a quick way to earn a bad reputation. If it's my sponsors product, you can bet that I'll tell them "Culprit Stinger Worm - Junebug with a Blue tip", or something to that effect. If I happen to be fishing the competitors brand because it's a color my sponsor does not make, you can bet that I've already contacted my sponsor several times, requesting that color be produced - as I want my sponsors items being used as much as possible.



Some sponsors request things, or demand things, that can sometimes seem ridiculous. I had a sponsor one time that demanded that their logo be twice the size of any of my other sponsors logos on my tournament shirt, and that it had to be placed in a certain spot, etc... Now what would happen if ALL of my sponsors demanded the same thing? I could only have one sponsor I guess, because they all want the same spot on my shirt. I finished out the contract with that sponsor that year (and yes, I promoted their products to the best of my abilities - truthfully), but did not renew my contract the following year, partially because of that demand and partially due to other demands they were making which didn't make any sense at all.



There are some ground rules that I adhere to at shows:

1) I never bad-mouth the competition to customers. We, as staffers, will joke (sometimes pretty harshly ) with each other at shows during slow periods, but I would never do it in front o

 

[Texas Transplant]

Very interesting reading.



Deals and promotions change all the time. Remember when there was a 'Team Chevy' group? Now it's Toyota.



I don't claim to understand enough about the whole 'sponsorship arena' to make any sense of it at all. Seems as though, some of it goes something like this.



1) If you are a 'rising star', some of these folks want to get you early as you are rising.



2) If you constantly in the Top 10-20, and getting the 'airtime', they definitely want you there.



3) If you are in the middle of the pack, and muddling along, then . . . .



4) One of the other things now-a-days, is whether you fall mostly in the BASS or FLW scenario. That can certainly affect sponsorships.



On the three mentioned, for George and Denny, most of their career is behind them, and not in front of them. Yelas is another story. He changed to FLW for a number of reasons, but I really think that his 'other opportunities' with FLW, has limited his exposure and impact to the sport - though he still is a talented angler on the FLW circuit.



Best to all three of them, for they have helped grow the sport.



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

Chevy is still quite active in fishing.....just not a major sponsor. They still sponsor a few of the FLW folks (Kim Stricker, Larry Nixon, Dion Hibdon) as well as the Federation, and the Stren series I think... BASS keeps pricing themselves out of "major sponsors" every 2-3 years....I give Toyota 2 more years and they'll bail.

 

[Mini]

Glenn pretty much summed it up.



but to get the companies perspective (and I held a position at All Star that dealt with this stuff everyday).....



if you sponsor a Zell Rowland (I only picked him because he was our "top pro") and he works a show he will have people talking to him all day telling stories signing autographs, etc. If you also sponsor Toxic and he works the same show, he will be talking to the people about the product. Where do you want your money? Toxic will get more impressions at that show. BUT....if Zell catches Big Bass on Santee or wins on Rayburn, his bait and/or rod will be a hot commodity. The media exposure from the tournament win will far outweigh the impressions Toxic made at Greentop's show.



Conversely, if you sponsor a big name tournament circuit and you are a title or exclusive sponsor then you will get more bang for your buck compared to sponsoring an angler. Your logo and product will be all over the weigh-in, magazine, website, promo spots, fliers, etc. if you sponsor an angler, you will get impressions based soley on his/her performance and exposure. Some guys are better at pushing their sponsors than others. Some sponsors are more lenient on allowing their anglers to talk about a different bait (Takahiro Omori's Classic win was one of the best examples....sponsored by Lucky Craft but wins on a Bagley and Lucky Craft didnt mind one bit).



It all boils down to money and ROI (return on investment). There are alot of bad investments made daily, but if you dont make an ivestment you cant reap the rewards.



What I see taking over is the contingency awards. Ranger and Berkely seem to be setting the trends in their own fields. They get exposure and impressions and the angler gets paid by performance. The amount paid depends on the level of the event you are fishing. Win Win right? WRONG.....the way this sport has evolved it has become too expensive for Joe Lunchbucket to do it without help. So I see a balance of this performance based system with a group of anglers that are being paid (regardless of performance) for promotional abilities.



the best thing anyone can do is provide a company with what they need. Period. If they want you to work shows, then do it. But dont spend YOUR money doing it. The companies have budgets for shows. They want to have as much help as possible for as cheap as possible. if you start whoring yourself out for nothing and spending your own money to do work for "sponsors" then you are starting a trend that is only good for the company. Not to mention that you will be labeled a patch pirate by everyone that is jealous of your position (EVEN IF THEY DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR POSITION IS!...trust me I know!!!)



Bottomline is that the companies need people to promote. If they dont have the people then they will revert to media (print, internet and TV) advertising. Once they see how much that costs....well they like giving money to fisherman.



Oh and dont fool yourself. the Outdoor Writers are as bad if not worse than fisherman wanting product! If a guy mentions a rod or bait in an article, it is usually because they have received some free product in exchange for print.



it is a weird industry, one that I absolutley love. One that is VERY SMALL and changing all the time. You can try to play the game, or you can just go fishing. I think most people should just go fishing and not worry about what so and so makes, or assume that "they get everything free" truth is most guys dont.



Mini

 

[Bill McElroy]

.....and YES,..I still buy ALL of my own pens and white out!!:blink::wacko::lol:

 

[Mini]

So far! lol

 

[Joe Working]

Rumor has it, that Strike King and Quantum might be hooking up. That could explain it for Brauer and Cochran, not sure about Yelas.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Interesting information and I agree with pretty much all that has been said. Mac, Mini, Greg, Glenn and some others know the score. You guys are getting a glimpse into the inner workings of sponsorship deals. You would be suprized at how many different deals/contracts there are out there. And no pro-staff member would/should ever disclose the terms of their contract. ALL of my contracts have a clause that prohibits that very thing as well as my selling product. Those 2 violations are an immediate dismissal. Mini, you forgot one thing in your comparison of me and Zell at a show. You are right, Zell will draw in the numbers, but where you forgot to make the comparison is what Greg said. I put the product in peoples/customers hands in real world circumstances. If I take John Q. Public out in my boat and we catch fish on Senko's for example, don't you think that guy is gonna buy Senko's? That's a pretty safe bet in my book. Most of the time they head right to the tackle shop at the marina and walk out with an armload. Smart sponsors know this. I have done more than one BPS show where people come up to me and tell me how they took my advice and caught loads of fish. You also have to look at the "General" tackle buying public. Most of them (I would guess 85%) wouldn't know me from Zell if we were standing side by side. I say that to make the point that I, as a guide make even more of an impression on more people ie., more bang for the buck. Zell is getting the 15% who know who he is, to buy whatever product he is promoting (as well as some of the show attendees). I get a captive audience in the boat and I can still make a major impression at the show (as long as I can speak and promote myself and my sponsor well). Double bang for the buck. The biggest misconception I see about sponsorship is the thought that you have to be successful in tournaments to get sponsored. That is the farthest thing from the truth there is out there. You have to be able to move product, plain and simple, it's all about sales. You have to be able to speak, promote, work and most of all sell product for your sponsor. Tom Branch, the Pro-Staff Director for True-Tungsten has an interview out there with Terry....what's his name, who used to do all the interviews on Bass Fan Radio. Go take a listen to that interview, he spells it out pretty clear. Tom approached me at Woo's tournament and wanted me with Tru-Tungsten. Seriously, he wanted more time than I was willing/able to give when factoring in my other sponsorships. I would have liked to get Tru-Tungsten BUT over time, I have learned just how much time and effort it takes to do a good job for a sponsor. I couldn't give him that time. And for those that think sponsorships are so great.....I've got news for ya!! I'll be doing shows and appearances pretty much every weekend from January-March. Like mini, I love it but it is HARD work. Being a guide, I get approached by every backyard bait builder there is out there. Glenn has it right, choose wisely because if you get the Sponsor Whore reputation, it is tough to shake (Take Roland for example and his shotgun fishing rod or whatever it was called). And to make one point VERY clear....I use and believe in EVERY product I am sponsored by. I wouldn't have it any other way. My credibility is on the line every time I represent a sponsor. Now maybe some of the big name guys take sponsorship $$ and don't use the product but I would say it is rare. Bottom line, being a guide and getting sponsored comes directly off my bottom line. Baits are expensive and my clients are mostly inexperienced and they lose tons of bait.



I won't even go into the political side of sponsorships and the personalities and the movement of people within the industry (that burning bridges thing). Let's just say you have to be sharp and willing to work very hard.



TOXIC

 

[TritonGlenn]

Oh yeah... I forgot to add (Tox probably knows what I'm talking about, and so does KB) - I learned my rules of the trade by the school of hard-nocks. Some more recently than others. Nobody is perfect. I learned a few of those rules by mistakes I made in the past. I've moved on since then, and incorporated those rules to live by. Again - I'm not perfect, but strive to be my best.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Donn Norton2]

This is some very interesting read. When I first started tourney's in 1991 and stopped doing them in 1999. I got my first major sponsor in 1991, just because I knew the son of the President of the company, no contracts, they supplied me rods, reels, hooks and clothes, no limit. I couldn't believe it and they stay with me til I stopped tourney's in 1999. They were more concern how I represented their products which I really tried in a positive way. I worked whatever show they wanted since they went out of their way to help me. It was alot of fun to work with their engineers who really listened to what I had to say, since I was and still a nobody in the world of Bass fishin. It was funny that they would ask me whether this guy or that guy should be sponsored by them since in the early 90's they were just starting to look at the Bass scene. I also manage to get a boat dealer to sponsor me, I would get a Bass boat for 10% below wholesale and there again no contracts. I used my sponsors products and liked them so I had no problem promoting them. I have to say I miss doing Tourney's but I still get more than my fair share of Bass fishin. Boy how things have progressed plus alot more competition.

 

[Mini]

Everyone makes mistakes. I have made many....what helps is having people that believe in you and your ability that are willing to help you learn from those mistakes. I am lucky enough to have that.



Mini

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Well, I guess I have been tainted by the few good ones. Toxic, KB nad Gunny have steered me into using three different products that are outstanding and I thank them for their advice. For the most part I would NOT buy a product becase a "pro" told me it was the best thing since sliced bread.



I didn't realize so much went into having sponsors and if I offended anyone by my commments I apologize. I do, however, appreciate Glenns's comment about the "product whore". Unfortunately, I think many feel that we have too many of the "whores" as they can't afford to be pro's without selling their souls.



BTW - The products I referred to above are Senkos (thanks Toxic), Pflueger President Spinning Reels (thanks KB), and Bass Boat Saver (thank you Gunny). LOL

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Don't get me wrong, at some point our opinion comes into play. For example, top tier gear like rods and reels hit a price point where quality is no longer a factor. I use JLM and like it. Glenn uses Pfluger and likes it. At the level we use this equipment, it all ought to perform flawlessly and then it is a matter of opinion which one you use. Likewise with baits there are tons of options that are basiclly the same bait. Take Senkos for example, how many companies make knockoffs? Most plastic pourers. I happen to like and use the original but if you are sponsored by a company that pours a knockoff then you can bet that is your bait of choice if you are sponsored by them.



TOXIC

 

[Randy Walls]

I can say that I was approached by a Tracker dealer in my area years ago as I have a fairlyt high profile in the area. I was basically given a Nitro for way below costs and all I was asked was that I fished as many local tournaments as I could and if someone asked me about my boat that I let them drive it. I also worked some shows. Sold many boats for them and was totally surprised when I sold my first boat, through recommendation actually, that they send me a $100.00 check for a finders fee. Received about 30 of those checks over the next 4 years. I just decided to back off tournaments and do certain circuits. You do what they ask to the best of your ability.



If it wasn't for the sponsorship they offered I would never have gotten the boat I did, way too expensive for me! Didn't want the State Team moniker either so they came up with this program. Best of both worlds.



Randy!

 

[Michael Meier]

I buy any items based off performace not because some one or some thing has put it in front of me. If I can get the item thru a trial and it works for me great. If it's something that I research and deem worthy of me trying it, I buy a couple.



I am sponsored by my wallet.

Member of My Wallet Pro staff..........:lol::lol::lol:

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

This has been an absolutely great and instructional read. I didn't know half of what went into sponsorships, etc.. Years ago I met and fished with someone who had a spinnerbait company. No paperwork or contracts but he started supplying me with all the spinnerbaits I wanted. All he wanted me to do was just use his spinnerbaits and to show them and maybe give some samples out to other fishermen. I thought that was great because they were the only spinnerbaits I used anyway. Newer spinnerbaits have surpassed those material wise, but I still use those older ones. I haven't talked to the owner in a long time but when I told him I'd be fishing the Hot side of Anna this past December, we chatted on the phone some more, he told me to be careful, and about four days later I received a bunch of spinnerbaits in the mail.

I also signed a contract as a field tester for a company whose product I have always used, about 35 years, but it was quite a surprise when a member of N.T.O.W.S. offered that to me with the condition that I just send in field reports. Unfortunately it was also about the time I had that wonderful (grrr) spinal fusion surgery so I wasn't much help to them at all Fortunately, I never heard a bad word from him/them about that.

Other than that, Toxic turned me on to Senkos but I had to keep him out in my Tin boat one day, in the sun and until he turned purple, to make him give me some.:lol: Nah, not really but he did turn purple.

I do want to try Pflueger President Spinning Reels though KB didn't tell me about them I haven't found a good, reasonably priced spinning reel for quite awhile.



Uncle Billy

 

[davetnitro]

remember when willie mays was traded to the Mets??

oh you guys are probably too young.... it broke by heart.

from that day forward, i realized things had changed forever,

and that it was all about $$.



it's all about the opinion of the people holding the $$$$$$.